In this episode I interview Hannah with Palindrome. We discuss everything from her own inclusive business practices, to how the industry needs to shift and change, as well as what lgbtqia+ couples can be on the look out for when hiring a HMUA for their own wedding days. Give it a listen and go check out Palindrome! @pal.in.drome.llc on Instagram!
The intro and all instrumentals were written, sung and recorded by @JaynaDavisMusic
In this episode I interview Hannah with Palindrome. We discuss everything from her own inclusive business practices, to how the industry needs to shift and change, as well as what lgbtqia+ couples can be on the look out for when hiring a HMUA for their own wedding days. Give it a listen and go check out Palindrome! @pal.in.drome.llc on Instagram!
The intro and all instrumentals were written, sung and recorded by @JaynaDavisMusic
All right, queer beloved, welcome back to this week's episode. My name is Ana, you, she her pronouns, and I have someone super amazing with me here today. Another internet friend turned into a super awesome connection, so I'm really, really excited and I would love to hand it over to you, Hannah, to introduce yourself, your pronouns, and any other identities you want to share. Hi. Yes, thanks for having me. Uh, my name's Hannah and I run Palindrome, which is a wedding hair and makeup business. My pronouns are she her. Um, I'm a queer woman of color in the business world, and I just love to include everybody into everything. Oh, I love that. Right off the bat. Yeah. And what I was telling Hannah before we hopped on is I feel like that's been such a rare thing to find is someone who not only is from the community, but is also like so openly wanting to work with everyone and celebrate everyone. So, Ugh. I'm just so excited to have you here, and I would love to hear a little bit more about like what you do, how you got started, what you're passionate about. I. Yes. Um, I've been doing it for 16 years. I went straight to beauty school from high school and then from there I knew a lot of people that were getting married young, so I started doing weddings right away in kind of a subpar environment, is how I would explain it. I didn't know. A lot of things and a lot of the, you know, disinfection, you know, doing all that stuff and disinfecting things and doing it appropriately. So I just kind of dove in and said, I can do this job. And I sorted it out with a couple of my friends and then I realized pretty quickly that I wanted to be running a full business. Not only do I wanna run a business for myself, but I like to run a business for others. So I just. It evolved, um, and we made mistakes and we learned a lot of things and now we done it, do it in a like full fledged business environment. And then I really decided that I wanted to be all inclusive. Um, I set good boundaries. I know what I need from the brides or from the humans, really. Um, and I just throw that out there and kind of throw the ball in their court. Uh, but then I like to announce to everybody where I stand on all those opinions that people don't like to talk about. I hate the fact that people ask, have to ask if we're queer friendly, gay friendly, trans friendly, any of that. I think it's ridiculous that that even has to be said out loud. So I want to announce it so that everybody could feel comfortable right away. Um, and as a woman of color, that was another thing that I also just found to be just yuck. I just didn't like it. It's not just for white people. I just think that's ridiculous. And so that was another thing that I really wanted to gear my business towards and kind of hit this market of we love everybody. We want to accept everybody no matter what. And I say that too, on the opposite end of conservative levels as well. Like, if you love my business and where I stand, then I'll accept you too. Um, I think there's that fine line of being too much on either side, so I just try to be as open to everybody as they wanna be to me. Um, and again, with boundaries. Um, My passions are food. Um, I should probably include my daughter in there. She's also a passion of mine, but passion's probably not the exact right description for her. Um, love her dearly, but food is my hobby. I get a lot of pushback on whether or not food can be a hobby. It for all my time and my money and my thoughts go, I just, I'm eating, you know, lunch, thinking about dinner. I just love food and I'll. I think that is truly the topic that would take over most conversations. That's amazing. Hey, you know, everybody's got their thing. I think it can, you can have whatever hobby you want. Yeah. Um, you being adult, I guess. Yeah. Wow. That is, that is awesome that you have really found. Your niche and, and kind of passion in what you do in that regard too. Um, and I think it's something that's, so obviously like as queer people, I think we understand there is always that idea of like constantly coming out, right? In like any setting, you know, kind of always have to make that choice. Right? And I feel like hair is one of those things where. I know, like when I've gotten to see a new person, that's part of the experience, right? Is like chatting and they ask a lot of questions, all the things. And it's kind of like in that moment, you know, they're asking about your weekend and if you live with someone and you kind of have to like decide what am I gonna say here? So to have, you know, someone like you and your business that are just putting it out there like. I know I appreciate that so much, so I can imagine that so many other people in the community appreciate it a lot, so thanks for doing that. Yeah, it came from a probably self-indulgent level. I just got tired of the conversation and so I wanted to let everybody know that this is gonna be a part of the conversation and it's totally fine if you don't have that same life. I just think. That's the environment you're walking into with me. Um, so if that makes you uncomfortable, then you probably shouldn't sign up with me. Yeah. And when you kind of chose to do that, to put it out there, put it up front, did you see like shifts in your business, whether it was positively or negatively, or both? Yes. Absolutely. And I knew that that would happen. Of course, that's gonna happen. That's human nature. Um, but I also knew. I wanted the direction and the give and take that would come with it would be worth it at a hundred percent. And it has been, um, the people who didn't want to did not continue. And I think that's great. And the people who were like, oh my gosh, I didn't know that about you, that makes me love you even more, then I think that's great too. So I think a lot of businesses kind of tend to stay pretty neutral on like political levels and things like that. And I don't feel like I shout from a rooftop of. Political standpoints and things like that. But you can guess where I stand on the line. And I think for me, I wanna attract the people that we're gonna have the best time ever. So if I don't really want it to be a secret, and then all of a sudden we're in a situation that both of us are kind of uncomfortable with, so I would just say, Hey, this is where I'm at. If that's not where you're at, then I think that's great, but then you should probably find somebody else because there's like, do this job. So you know, find somebody that fits. I think that's great. And I see we have an, uh, surprise guest joining us here. Yes, Alice. She likes to be where the people are. Oh, no, that's great. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it's been best case scenario and mutually beneficial on both sides.'cause that means like you don't have to hide anything about you either, which is like, who wants to do that when they're. Running their business. Uh, exactly. And you know, as somebody who's grown, grown up in a white world, to me it just gets kind of boring to be offended all the time. And I just think, just see if it have some culture and come with it or find somebody else that doesn't. And that's, that's the option. But we don't, I don't feel like I need to be forced into being uncomfortable any longer. I can just live the life I wanna live and move along. I, I love that so much and I think you're making such a big difference in the community. So thank you again. And I, yeah, I would love to chat a little bit about weddings,'cause Yeah, that's what we chat about around here. So as someone who does hair and makeup, how do you see your role in making sure that couples feel really comfortable and safe on their day? Like presenting however it is that they want to present? Yeah, there's so much that is, I think, Required in a thought process. One of it is just being prepared. Being prepared for all situations. You never know what you're getting into. And for me, I know other businesses in my same field do it differently, and the way I run it and the way I choose to run it is just be prepared for all situations. I don't ask ahead of time of what's coming. I love a heads up, you know, especially with pronouns because it's always, you don't always know, and I would never wanna be offensive. So I think it's worth knowing, but, There's just so much of it that you walk into not knowing. So for us is hair and makeup. It's being prepared for all things, not just having kind of a one size fits all. Um, and I think it's really important. I also think that, and I've trained my team on this, is to. Just do your best to not be offensive, you know? And you can be offensive in any situation. Not intending to. I've offended plenty of people by accident because I was trying to kind of skirt the line, assuming some pronouns, you know, and like staying safe on that. And then, you know, somebody offended and that kind of way. And I just think there's this huge. To take responsibility and just say, I am so sorry, that was not intentional. Um, let me make that correction, you know, and just own the truth of the, sorry, you know, imperfect as well, so, To me, I think that's a huge part of it as well. It's a personal thing for me to just take responsibility for your actions as well. I mean, I just think that's an appropriate adult thing to do in life, but especially in business, I think there's that line of professionalism that you really need to stay behind securely. And if you make a mistake, you make a mistake, just own it and move on, that's the best you can do. So, um, I think it's also being open-minded to. Just everything of like the suggestions and the, you know, it might not look how you feel like it should look. The whole, you know, getting ready together, that happens in heterosexual relationships as well. It's not a specifically gay thing to do, and who cares. I just think that I, I mean, there's so many things in rabbit trails that could go on on that topic, but I just think people should get to do what they want. Their day. It's their day and they should get to do it whatever way makes them feel best, and I support that. Then it's just talking about the logistics of how that can work best for everybody involved. Yeah, absolutely. And I assume there has to be a certain level too, of kind of coming in. I think you already touched on it a little bit, but sort of coming in without any. Assumptions, right? Like you're not coming in and being like, okay, well that's kinda how they look. And so I'm gonna ask them if they want this certain kind of hairstyle that I usually see other people that maybe look similar, asking for it kind of thing. Like just kind of coming in with no assumptions and kind of just going off of them. Is that kind of part of your practice too? Absolutely. And I, my whole philosophy is, put your order in. You can have whatever you want. That does not matter to me. You just gotta tell me the box that you wanna be in, and then that's what I'm gonna give you. And I've heard, again, it was unintentional, but I've heard several artists on my team, not on my team, you know, working with other vendors that just say things and they don't mean to, but it's, you know, oh, you want it to look glamorous? And I thought, Why can't they look glamorous? If they wanna look glamorous, if they have short hair, that doesn't mean anything. You know? And I understood how they got there, but I just think you gotta try harder. You gotta do your best to just let them be as they wanna be. It doesn't matter. And what do you really care? That's my opinion. What do you care? They can have whatever they want. I wanna have whatever I want. Yes. Right. That's so true. Like, and I'm so glad that you brought that up because I've seen that a lot too. Um, you know, when I have two brides, um, or, you know, even maybe folks who are non-binary, like I've heard them multiple times be like, oh, like the, you know, something along the lines of the hair and makeup people started packing up and I was like, wait, no. Like, I'm. I'm getting my hair done too. Like yeah. That's just such a sad stigma that I'm, I'm sad still exists, but how do you kind of navigate that, like around ideas like, oh yeah. On a wedding day, only one member of the couple gets hair and makeup or, or anything along those lines. I. I personally do my best to just ask the questions ahead of time. I mean, it's part of the job that I personally do for my team, but just in life, I think just ask, you know, are you interested in doing hair and makeup services? And most of the time I know that information walking into it, but it's just never assuming. And then two, taking. Taking into account what they're telling you. You know, like, okay, I just want you to feel in comfort level. So whatever that may be, whether it's just a little bit or a lot or middle ground, you can have whatever you want. And quite frankly, if it's worth it to you to be pampered in some sort of way, then it's worth it. Um, goes to, you know, men who would like their makeup done. I just think there's that whole thing too, and I had to work hard to change all my verbiage to be appropriate because there's so many different types of options and I don't think that men should have to pay more or less because they're a man or they identify as a man or they, you know. Same with all the things, all of the gen, all of it. And I just think, let's just call him human. Everybody can just be, you know, and that's what it is. And I get pushback on that quite a bit, especially from heterosexual people who don't understand why I would word it that way. And I just explain to them as politely as possible that, you know, this is an all inclusive, like we want everybody to feel comfortable. So, and it honestly is an attraction point for my particular business. I get that all the time, and people appreciate it. Because the people who appreciate it appreciate it, you know, and the people who don't understand it have questions. Um, and I think that's okay. Yeah. And honestly, I would love to know, because we have both couples and vendors who listen and, and so maybe for other vendors or other, Artists out there. Practically speaking, what do you mean when you say like, changing your verbiage or like what your pricing looks like? So for me, if I was shopping around for a hair and makeup vendor for myself, I would be offended if the contract wrote, you know, read as bride name. Um, Or bridal contract. I don't think that it's just brides that are signing these contracts and to me it's just a client. So I try to make it as gender neutral as possible by saying, you know, for my pricing, it's all humans. This age and older is this price and this age and younger, or this price, and it could be anybody who falls in those categories. Um, I simplified my menu, so for that exact reason, just to say, You know, this is what it is across the board for whoever it is that would like to receive that service. Um, client is also a word that I use as opposed to putting any sort of gender attached to it. Um, try to just keep it, again, really neutral, but also explanatory so people can understand what they're signing up for. But it is my personal opinion in life that more is more in communication. So I like to really. Throw it at them and say, listen, if this is not a good fit, this is what you're signing. So make sure you understand so that you can, you know, and it simplifies my life too, as somebody who has a high volume level of contact with the wedding world, just based on my team and, you know, experience, I suppose. And even on like a totally. Small scale hearing you say that, I'm like, wow, I wish that that would be a thing more widespread.'cause even um, my partner, she has like very, very short hair. Like presents very mask. And like every time she gets her hair cut, they're essentially speaking to her as if she was a man, but then still charging her the extra cost of getting a woman's haircut. Ugh. I changed that too. I said just it's haircut. It's just a haircut. So whoever you are, whatever you're doing, that is what it is. Um, but that took me a while. I mean, it took me to even like, put the work in to review my own stuff. It took me a minute to say, sit down and say, Hey, let's do this. Like, let's focus and make sure that everything is as fluid as possible. But I hate that, that really bums me out. Um, I get really freaking mad about it. This is how I feel about venues who have bride getting ready rooms and groom getting ready rooms. And I think it's disgusting. And then I also think it's really gross when they assign who they think is the bride and groom. And I, I get really mad about it and I want to blacklist a lot of those people. Not that I get to choose that for my. Weddings. But sometimes I think about that. I'm like, if I was shopping around for that, I would say, no, thank you. That to me would be a red flag enough for me to be like, you do not get my money. Thank you. Yes. A million times. Yes. Um, I just did an interview with a venue space and that's something we talked about a lot because it's like, yeah, it sucks. Like, you know, even thinking about with my partner in the future, It's not like one of us wants to be in a nice space and one of us wants to be stuck with like a deer head and a pool table. Like it, it just is like the places that have figured it out and kind of just been like, you know, you both deserve like a nice space and they don't have to be like polar opposites of each other. Um, and like the amount of couples I've worked with who. Yeah, in those examples, sometimes one of them will just end up, you know, getting ready in the hotel room or something because it's just like, that's so sad. Like no one wants to feel like they have to be a man to be getting ready, you know? It's just Exactly. I also leave space to try to understand that some of these are kind of historic venues and haven't quite done the work to get up to the times, and I can understand how. That can be a thing. They deserve some grace to like get up because, you know, running a business is a whole job, so it's, I get it. Come up to speed, I think then you just have to compensate accordingly. And the tours and the, you know, the information being presented of like, no, no, we're still super friendly. We just haven't quite gotten there all the way yet. And to me that's enough. I'll accept that. Like as long as you're acknowledging the fact that you're not doing it. Wonderfully. I can move on. Right. Yeah, I love that. Always leaving room for sure. Um, I'm glad you brought this up though, because I also kind of wanted to discuss sometimes within the community there are couples who actually wanna get ready together. Um, I think that's something I see. Quite frequently or hear from my own couples of just like, well, we're like each other's best friends. You know? Like, why wouldn't we wanna get together or get, get ready together? Um, and I think I've heard a handful of them get some pushback from, you know, whoever's giving the tour or whatever. Like, what, why would you get ready together? Like, how are you gonna, is that, you know, that kind of thing. So how would you respond? To that, it's a tough topic for me because I don't understand why it matters, and to me, those people who say that response out loud are so crunchy that I just think, okay, you're stale. You're a stale experience of a human, and I'm embarrassed for you that you are this kind of way because you're pushing your agenda into me and I'm trying to give you quite a bit of money. So what do you actually care? It literally doesn't matter. And again, They do that more with same sex couples, but I know I have plenty of heterosexual couples that get ready in the same space, and then they sometimes have a moment where they're like, okay, I'm fully getting ready now. Maybe you don't look at me this moment, but like I've had it all. And I just think, why was that Even your job to comment on my life is not to be commented on by you. I don't comment on your life. So I, I don't to, I just get really worked up about it.'cause I think that's stupid. I also think that the, the businesses as a whole should be addressing that to their people. And again, some things just slip out. I get that. I understand from my own team that some people just don't. They don't know and they wanna know, but they haven't done a lot of work to know. And I think that they, they do their best in that capacity. But then in those moments when you can see that it's been offensive in some sort of way, it's just take ownership of like, oh, I'm so sorry, I, I just didn't quite understand. Or Do you mind educating me on that? In my opinion as a human, I think that to me, that safe space, I might not still book with you, but at least you tried, but. I've had plenty of experiences where people are just rude. I mean, I got married once, I'm no longer married, but dress shopping was a nightmare and it was terrible and it was, some person said to me, Ugh, we don't make wedding dresses and children's sizes. I thought, I'm just like a petite Asian woman. I'm just like a regular size. I'm not even like unusually short or, it was super bizarre and I thought, okay, well should I just leave then? Should I continue? Or like, are you gonna show me nothing to me? That's just a wild thing to say out loud. Why would you say that? And it was, I had a nightmare of a time. And then the last place out of seven that I went to was finally wonderful. They understood the assignment, they heard what I had to say. They didn't waste my time, you know? And it was just like amazing. And I think. That's the training there in all of wedding vendor life to just do your best. I also think some people have specific agendas that they would like to get across. I know I do, which is why I would like to be things. Um, but I just think there's the opposite side of that people, and then they should find their own people. Um, so do what you want, you know, in your own business. That's the right. Yes. I'm hearing, I think I'm hearing a lot of themes of sort of like, just keep it to yourself in general. Like why are you, but then it's kind of like a double-edged sword, right? Like I've, I've talked to this with some folks where it's like, yeah, that sucks. Like, why would you say that? And at the same time, there are moments of like, But at least I know now. You know what I mean? Like, because you said that, that revealed something to me about who you are and I might not have known otherwise and like maybe found that out later, like on my wedding day, which would suck worse. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like a weird. Absolutely. And again, I put myself in this side of the line, but I do try to save space for those that wanna stay on the other side of the line. There are a lot of people who would love that and they should have their people as well. And so I do try to, I, I say all inclusive because I think I would like to include everybody, including the people I disagree with, and that. I think that that's an easy thing to do, to be just offended constantly. And again, I've offended plenty of people. I've offended plenty of people in the queer community, uh, by accident, and I thought, that's your opinion, and I didn't know that. And how would I know that, that that would be somehow offensive to you? When I'm sitting here at Pride trying to present myself as like, I'm here to support everybody. And you know, I've had some pushback on things that I just thought, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know. And then to me, all I can do at that point is say, sorry, I didn't know. Thank you so much for educating me. I'm gonna take that note and, you know, adjust further. But there's a lot of that too, I think in vendors. Uh, you know, you as the business owner can. Present a certain way and then your team doesn't, and how are they gonna manage that? Or they didn't know, they didn't have all the education you do on the topic. So I just try to leave space. And you're right, I do think, uh, keep it to yourself moment as somebody who suffers strongly from R B F, I think. There's that time where it's like, just say face as best as you can, try to look pleasant and move along. And then you process that in the car on the way home, you know? Oh my gosh. Yeah. No, I, I really appreciate that and I, I appreciate you saying that as well too.'cause I think, um, it's, it's kind of a common theme or something I've mentioned several times on this podcast of. I think a lot of people come into this space still with kind of that like nervous energy of like, oh my gosh, like what if I mess up? And like, there's so many things to learn and nah, like, it's so complicated. And it's one of those things where it's like, I, I understand it feels that way, but also it's like really not once you kind of start like practicing it. And at the same time, I love that you've said that because that's all you can do is just like acknowledge and move on like. I am still learning all the time too, and like I'm in the community. Like, it's just, I, I really appreciate you bringing up that theme and kind of reminding everybody that we're just trying to do our best. That's what I think. I, I'm an adopted human that has grown up in a white world, so I've gotten lots of offensive comments my whole life, and my mom used to say, tell me, you can choose to be offended or you can choose to educate them. That's how I've practiced everything. When people ask me a stupid question or, you know, not a correct way to ask me, and I know what they're trying to ask me. I have a choice every single time. What am I gonna do? And I found in my life it is not worth my energy, my personal energy that, that I carry with me per day. You know, it's not worth that to always be offended. Sometimes it's just worth it to be like they didn't mean it like that. That's not what they meant. And then sometimes I go in hard and I'm like, that's rude. That's not a correct way to ask that question. If you'd like to know the answer, you're gonna have to figure that out. Google's a really good source for how to figure that out, you know, and I'll just fight back. But it's not always worth the energy to be combative like that. I don't think I have a lot of other uses for this energy that I get per day. And, uh, I gotta manage it appropriately. Yeah. For sure. I agree. But for those who are interested in doing better, um, and those who are interested in kind of being on the lookout for the people who are doing better, um, as couples are kind of looking for someone for their wedding day, is, is there anything that they should look for, um, in terms of red flags or be cautious of, um, or even just. Looking to see like, are they trying at least? Yeah, I think there's so many answers that I could come up with for this. Again, based on my own personal opinions, but also the opinions of others that I know. Um, I think a pride flag goes a long way in a website, on an Instagram, you know, things like that. I try to personally represent. All as much as possible on my Instagram. Like if I can get anything that's like atypical in a good photo, I'm gonna post it and I'm gonna post it often because to me it's worth just having the representation available. Um, and I think that. People can sort that out pretty quickly. It's when it's a little bit gray that it's harder to, I mean, I, again, I look for same-sex couples when I'm shopping around for any vendor. Um, I do my homework too on, you know, what does your contract say? If I can view that, uh, ahead of time or even the contact form of how to get ahold of the person. Um, I look at that as well, because when it's very gender specific, it tells me that maybe that. Not a direction you're going. And I could be wrong, I get fairly judgy about it for my own personal use, but I stand in the realm of, I could be wrong and I hope that I am, but there's a lot of little things that give me clues. And this could border on offensive. But if they're very, if they love Jesus very much, they probably don't love that I'm bisexual. So I don't typically entertain that type of vendor. Again, I know lots of people who love Jesus and are still very progressive, but when I'm shopping around, that is a thing that I'm like, Ooh, to me it's a red flag. And I don't know that I necessarily wanna take the time to figure out if it isn't, because there are so many other options. But if I was really sold on that person and really wanted that and I was like, oh, they would be my first choice, I just wish, you know, I would maybe put some more work into it. But otherwise, no, I that, I think pronouns are also a good use of. Research, do they have an option to, for me to tell them my pronouns or do they not? Um, some people will write that. I've seen that before. You know, if you have specific pronouns, then you're not, for us, it wasn't written exactly like that, but that's what they were saying. And I thought good information to have. Um, I guess I'm glad that I'm not wasting my time. Also wildly inappropriate, but okay, you live in that space. Good for you, I suppose. I don't know, but yeah. And then too, like bride groom specific, I think all gender specific things. Mm-hmm. Now, again, I understand the whole bathroom thing is a tough one because, and to me it's lower on the list of judgments for spaces. But yeah, I like to look at the team as well. Whoever's running the, you know, the team and the environment that I'd be walking into. Yeah, those are my personal opinions on those topics. Yes, absolutely. And I mean, you are like, for everyone listening, you should definitely go check out her website'cause you are like living proof of a lot of the things you just said, like literally. The first image on your homepage is someone who is not a young client, like they are an older client. And I think even that is just like right off the bat, like, wow, that is so cool. And that tells me that you're not just doing what everybody else is doing. I think too, to all the things you touched on, it is again like room for grace in learning, but. Some of those things, like you said, like having something on your contact form that just says partner A and partner B or something to that extent, like that literally would take you 30 seconds. So it is some of those things where it's like, yeah, I can understand the bathrooms. Actually, just yesterday when I was uh, talking to the venue owners, they said to put like, A gender neutral, like single cell bathroom in their space, it would cost over a hundred thousand dollars to do that. So yeah, of course there are things where it's like, but 30 seconds to make a change on your website is everything. So yeah, thank you for that compliment. I worked really hard on that website because, I think websites are so important and I wanted instantly it to be a vibe. I just wanted people to know right away without even having to read anything further, that we are atypical, we are accepting of everybody. And this is, you know, and I think as somebody who shopped websites, I love online shopping, but I just think you can kind of instantly get that. It's either stiff and subpar and you didn't quite spend enough time or money on it and you know, it still could be good information, but I'm probably not looking any further. To me, I just wanted it to be popping in that like, this is what I want you to know right away. My bottom footer picture is, uh, he identifies male, um, in a bright pink red heels. This is a photo shoot. Yeah. Put together, but together. He was so awesome. And I was like, you're going on there because this instantly tells you everything you need to know about my business. And to me that is exactly the point of a website. Yes, absolutely. I try to always share the same thing with, with vendors too, and, and also to be, like you said, sharing those things constantly and not just in like June or something like that. So, Which you very obviously do, so that's amazing. Thank you. Um, as someone who obviously is kind of in the hair and makeup world, you probably are, you know, have other people in your network and kind of hear what's happening. What do you think needs to change and where do you hope to kind of see your industry go moving forward? Yeah. Um, there's so many of us, there's so many hair and makeup vendors and everybody does things differently. I think there's a true beauty to that. Just even not even being political or accepting or any of that, those things, it's how do they run their business? What works best for you Is the booking human that you know, do you wanna have to pay six months in advance? Do you wanna lock those numbers in? Do you wanna, you know? So I think there's a beauty in that of being able to shop around to find the perfect fit. It's also overwhelming because you have to shop around to find the perfect fit. So it's my personal opinion that all hair and makeup vendors should be. Queer friendly. Um, to me it's, it's a no brainer. Same sex couples have bigger bridal parties, which gets you more money. That, duh. What, what do you care? What do you, this is a business. What do you mean? So I've had, somebody told, told me once, she said, although I don't disagree with that lifestyle, I would never treat anybody differently, but I don't feel comfortable doing this shoot. And I thought, yeah, that's called treating somebody differently. That's literally the definition. Um, sorry that you're only like 20 and you can't figure that out yet. But I'm gonna let you know because it's so disrespectful. And I don't know how else she could have said it any differently to me, to be honest. I don't know. But I was like, that's just a stupid thing to say out loud because you're literally contradicting yourself. But, so I think all those things need to change as well. I, I personally think that it would be nice if people rode the political lines a little harder. Um, I understand why they don't, but to me, that tells me a lot that I need to know. Um, this is how I would equate to a dating world as well. Anything in online dating? Like, can you just let me know up front? Can I figure, you know, can you send me like a Google doc of questions of what you'd be interested in knowing so I can know ahead of time as well? Uh, that's how I would feel about vendors too. Like, can I just know a little bit more information and. You know that, I think that there's a huge thing too, of being upfront. Again, this is my personal opinion as somebody who likes to shop this way, but I don't always wanna contact you to get information that I, that doesn't work for me. That feels like a poor use of my times. And I also think websites are meant to work for the business. So if you just curate your website to give the information as much as possible, knowing that, you know, that might not be the exact price for your situation or anything, but like give me a ballpark so I can understand if it's even worth my time to contact you. Um, and then on the flip side too, of, you know, people shopping, I think read the website. That's what it's there for, is it gives you a lot of information in my personal website. It's very informational because I like people to do their homework ahead of time so that, you know, again, we're all using our time appropriately. Um, that's also the type of person I would like to be attracting, so it's partially why I curated it that way. But I also think for hair and makeup specific vendors come prepared, please. Don't have a one size fits all bridesmaid hairstyle that you can do. Please be creative and give these people some other ideas that's part of the job, and don't force your agenda. If they're saying, I really only wanna have my skin tone even, and maybe some mascara, let them have it. Just let them have it. Don't try to twist their arm into being something that they're not or that they don't feel comfortable in because nobody in the world wants to do that. I don't wanna feel that way. I wanna feel in my comfort zone. I think everybody does. So if I think if people put a little bit more thought into that, how would you wanna feel if you were booking a service, you know, or a vendor, how would you wanna be feeling? And then you should do that in your business. My opinion. That's a mic drop moment right there, I feel. Yeah. Like that's so simple. And I think that's something people don't think about. But I, I will say I feel like there's been somewhat of a kind of shift over the last couple of years, um, in that like, I don't know if it's just kind of come naturally with like social media and things, but people are making their businesses a lot more personal. You know, I think back in the day it was a lot more, everything kind of had to feel. Really professional and like borderline, like stiff sometimes. And there's kind of has been this shift into we're gonna make our businesses more personal and share about us on the about page and like all of those kinds of things. And so I think with that shift exactly like you were saying, it should kind of feel like a natural shift into sharing. Where you fall on things and how you like care for people and all of that too. So yeah, really hoping that that can just sort of happen more and more. Yeah, I love that. I love that it's becoming like that as well. I think it's, it makes it more fun. I have realized as somebody who. I felt this weird line of being a total over sharer and also very private. I don't know, it's a weird world to live in, but I just feel like people like to know who we are. The downside is I run a team, so they don't always get to know them. They get to know me and they're like, oh, Hannah sold me on this idea, and then that's my job to make sure my team is. Same with that, same thing. I, this is how I tell them, you know, I said, you can believe whatever you wanna believe. That does not bother me in your own head and your own heart and your own home. What you need to present and actively do is what I'm presenting because that's what I sold them. And that's extremely important to me. I mean, from a makeup artist, you have to know how to do all skin colors, all of them. And you have to be prepared in your kit to do so, because I'm not having the conversation of like, oh, I left my Ebony kit at home, what? Why would you even say that? That's a stupid thing to say out loud. I cannot hang with that. I just think do your job and show up and do it. My goodness. And you look stupid. That's so stupid that these are things I do not allow on my team. It's you either come prepared for all things that you don't show up at all. That's it. Yes. Wow. You are amazing. I appreciate you and. The way you think. So very much judgey and mildly offensive sometimes. Hey, you know, I think, like you have said, when we live in a world that's so, it honestly still is very focused on like straight, cis, white, heteronormative people and couples. Like when that's. Our majority and what we see is sometimes like the feistiness comes out a little bit when you're like trying to just be like, those are not the only people in the world that exist. Yeah, yeah. Or even like gender roles in a same sex couple people feel very strongly that that has to happen, and I know people personally who feel like they want gender specific roles in their relationship with the same sex person. I know they exist. I just. Get it. Just try to break out a little bit. Try to understand that not everything has to fit in this tiny little box and just try. You may not, you may have questions and I love an educated question. I'm happy to answer any questions that you have and you should do it in a safe space, not to the person you just met, but to your friend that you know could have these answers and could understand that you're not being offensive. But to try to try is all that you need to be doing. That's it. That's the game. And people are like, well, I just don't know. I didn't grow up in that. And I think, yes, I understand, but you need to put some effort in, or you're gonna just stay in your tiny little box and we're gonna be sad for you. Or we might not think about you at all either one. Try to try. That's that's the line of this episode. Try to try folks. Yes. Oh my gosh, Hannah, you are seriously so amazing. I. I feel like everybody is just gonna learn from you so much. Thank you. But before we hop off, I would love to learn just a little bit more about you with just a few fun questions. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. What's your favorite color of the rainbow? Green. Love it. Me too. Um, do you remember who or what was your gay awakening? Uh, yes I do. Um, her name is Molly. We call her MA for short. Um, we dated for over four years. Wow. Very nice. Mm-hmm. And if you, if someone was like, Hey, all responsibilities are off your plate, you have a totally free day, what would be your favorite way to spend it? Uh, treat myself to brunch somewhere good. Probably do a walk around the lake. Um, if it's nice out, if farmer's market's an option, then I'd probably do that. Um, but lay around probably outside and then treat myself to dinner at a bar where I can sit kind of by myself, but still have mild interactions so I can get in my extroverted side, just a little bit of exercise, um, and then go home and be sleeping by nine 30. Yes. Wow. Total Dream. Yeah. I love that. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you again so very much. That was amazing. Everybody needs to go check out Palindrome, hire them for your wedding or Yeah, just check them out. They're great. Thank you so much. Clearly. Beloved, thank you so much for joining us this week. I hope you all are having a great day, and I will see you here next week.