Queerly Beloved
Queerly Beloved
31. Queer Love Stories: Gillian + Shannon
Thanks so much to G + S for sharing their beautiful love story for us all to learn from and relate to and grow as a community <3
If you're interested in sharing your queer love story with us, please say hello on Instagram @wildlyconnectedphoto
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email hello@wildlyconnectedphotography.com
Happy Whatever This Time Of Year Is For You!!!
The intro and all instrumentals were written, sung and recorded by @JaynaDavisMusic
Queerly Beloved, I'm so glad you joined!
Please keep the community going by checking me out on instagram @wildlyconnectedphoto and come say hi! I'd love to hear from you! :)
Hi. Hello everybody. It is Ana your friend and host and owner of wildly connected photography. I just am popping on here for a quick note. Before we dive into this week's episode. if you're listening to this week's episode live, then it is likely coming out just right around the holidays and around Christmas time. I realized that not everybody celebrates Christmas. And if that's you, then I hope that you were just enjoying this time of year. And if you get a name. And work holidays off. Because the rest of the world does, then I hope you enjoy. Basically, I'm just here to say a couple things. I mean, first of all, I have recently been looking more into the podcast and who's listening and where, and all the things. And I found out that not only are people listening to this podcast across the United States, but we also have some listeners joining in from various parts of the world, which blows my mind. So if you're tuning in from somewhere, that's not the United States. Hi. Hello. Nice to meet you, and, um, if you are listening in the U S and not in Minnesota, then hello to you as well. Um, I just, I think it's so cool that we're, we're on a little community here. And that being said, Yeah, I just, I realized that there are so many, so many different kinds of people tuning in here, and I just feel so grateful to share this space with you all. And didn't feel like I could release an episode close to the holidays without acknowledging that this time of year might be hard for some people. And that's myself included. Of course, this podcast has come from. A passion for making the world a safer, more inclusive space and also sort of out of necessity for, you know, just having things that I didn't see in the industry when I came in and. You know, Wanting to provide. Something to fill the gaps. And, and what I felt like was missing what I didn't have growing up But also it's a really awesome opportunity for. Just being able to connect with people in ways that. May not have happened. You know, just. Existing where I do so. I'm sort of rambling now, but all of this is to say that for me personally, this time of year is hard and weird because of the relationship that I have with my family. Or lack thereof. And I know I'm not alone in that. And so if that's you, I'm sending you virtual hugs or virtual high-fives, whatever. Whatever you prefer. and just want to say that I see you and. I hope that you can find some joy and peace and other things. This holiday season. And if that's not you, and this is like your favorite time of year, then? Heck yeah. I hope you have a Holly jolly time. Yeah. Basically just wanted to extend warm thoughts that everybody who may need at this time of year. And, even for those who maybe still do. Have relationships with their family, but maybe things just feel strange or different, or maybe it's just stressful. whatever it might be. I just wanted to say that I'm thinking about all of you. And sending as many good vibes as I can through my microphone. So moving on from the sappiness I'm so excited for you all to listen to the queer love story we are about to hear. Oh my gosh. I'm just. These two, just, they are simply the best. And. I feel like they're just going to make everybody's day. That being said, this is the start of. The queer love story series that I've mentioned in a few episodes now. So I am looking for more couples to come on the show. I'm looking for as many diverse experiences and backgrounds to share so that we can not only keep learning from each other, but hopefully keep relating to one another as well. So if that's you, if you're willing to share your love story on the podcast, you can message me on Instagram. At wildly connected photo, or you can please email me@helloatwildlyconnectedphotography.com. And that will all be in the show notes below. So. Please reach out and enjoy this episode.
All right. Queerly Beloved, welcome back to this week's episode. I'm so stoked to be restarting this series on queer love stories. I just think that they're so valuable and they just need to be shared more. And I'm so excited to, to hear from the couple that I have with me here today. Oh my gosh. I was just chatting with them a little bit before we started and they are the greatest. So. Without further ado, would you two please introduce yourself and your pronouns and any other identities you want to share? I can go first. I'm Jillian. I use they, them pronouns. And in terms of identities, as far as the queer ones go I use the words lesbian, gay, queer, and then tend to use genderqueer, non binary as well. And then it's also important to me that I'm a dancer and a dance educator and an artist, and also a writer and poet. And I am Shannon. I use pronouns he, her, hers. I identify as a woman and as a lesbian, queer, gay, all of the above, rainbows. And I also am a dancer, a dance educator. I do arts administration and I like to create and I am an artist. Wow. Oh my gosh. Right off the bat, I'm like, you two are so cool. Like I'm sure like The art that you two have and have made and oh my gosh, wow, the coolest vibes. So, yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit more about you two individually before we start. So, yeah, maybe let's just ease in and just share a little bit of more about like what you do and what brings you joy. We'll go with that. I can go. I. Am a dance educator. As I said before, we work at the same organization. We live in Berkshire County, Massachusetts, and we work for a small dance organization where we both do equal parts arts, admin behind the scenes, and then also teaching and choreographing and performing dance. I grew up on the west coast in Colorado and Portland, Oregon, and went to college in Los Angeles, and I, I moved out here to Berkshire County site unseen. And I just fell in love with living in a rural space. I, I grew up in cities and always identified as a city kid and then came out here and was like, Oh my gosh, there's so much space to roam. And I feel really lucky that we live in a rural place where queer people are accepted. And so, yeah, I kind of just like dove into making a little queer rural life for myself out here in Massachusetts. Yeah, and I grew up in Michigan, actually, so I'm also from the Midwest, has been to Minnesota a lot. And, yeah, and I end up going to college in Michigan and studying dance, which is what brought me out to Massachusetts. And I grew up in a tiny, tiny town, like 5, 000 people and I was always, as a kid, like, wanting to, you know, like, go somewhere bigger, you know, the way we do, and in college, I feel like my brain Like kind of re like reverted back to appreciating the smallness of things. Like I had a really small community my dance community in college. I realized how important community is to me. And so when I moved to Massachusetts to this beautiful rural space that we live in that is so abundant with the arts and dance and, and. We were affirming and I could find this beautiful community in this small rural space. I, I felt so lucky because that wasn't always my experience growing up in small rural spaces. I feel like I get the best of both worlds. Getting to have this tight knit community, this beautiful rural setting, and also a community of people who accept me for who I am and a place where I can do art, practice art, teach art. It's all really important to me. Oh, that is so cool. Oh my gosh. And so cool to hear. Like, honestly, I think this might be one of the first times I've heard people like talk about a rural community that has such like a queer affirming community. That's great. Because I feel like sort of the age old debate is like, well, if we don't really want to live in the city, but like, also do we want to like risk it and move to the country? Like, so that's really awesome. I'm glad that you everyone. Have found that that place to call home. It's awesome. Cool. Well, I'm sure we're going to hear more about like the dance and stuff like that. When, when we kind of talk more about your stories, how you met. But I'd love to hear anything that you're comfortable in sharing about like what the journey looked like for you in coming out as much or as little as you'd like to share. Do you want to go first or do you want me to go first? I can go first. So I had always had a feeling. I feel like that, you know, something, something was up. Like I said, I grew up in a tiny town in a very rural area in a very Religious area and it was like out of the question in terms of the community that there'd be support for queer people. And yet I was blessed to grow up with parents who were always very queer affirming. And I remember as a young kid, like, I, I feel like I just was very little and made some comment about. Like gay people, like just, you know, the way like a five year old would say, like, cause they don't understand. And my mom was like, Oh, that's always okay. You know, like don't ever say that's not okay. And don't listen when people say that. And so I felt so lucky growing up with her as a mom, especially. Cause I feel like I had that in me from a young age, even if everything around me. was saying otherwise. And so I had, like, some queer friends growing up. Some queer friends in high school. It was really hard to grow up where I lived as a queer person. And I feel like I kind of, shared very specific details about my queerness with very specific people. And it was always very wishy washy. And Meanwhile, my older sister ended up coming out as gay while I was end of high school, coming into college. And I feel like at that moment I was like, well, we've had very different lived experiences, so that must mean I'm not gay. And went about my life through college went to college for dance, had a ton of queer friends and still didn't quite figure that out about myself. Then eventually, once I'd moved to Massachusetts I got out of a relationship that I'd been in and was very close friends with Jillian and our friendship and subsequent me falling for them really precipitated this, like, finally accepting. This part of myself that explains so much about my life and, and kind of what I've gone through in the last few years. And that was the moment where it was not wishy washy anymore. I started sharing with my friends and my family about our love and falling in love with you and all that. So that's kind of the journey, yeah, it's been a long road. I feel like every time you tell that story, I get emotional because I just feel so lucky to have you. And glad that our lives brought us together. So, I'm sorry to cry. Oh my god. Yeah. This is a crying, friendly household. Yeah. Yes. Please. Yeah. And same with the podcast. Oh my God, that is so beautiful. Like, wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I'm so, yeah. Echoing you. Just so happy that you were on that journey and were able to find each other. Cause I think sometimes like it really can take like another person. Like, I feel like sometimes there's this idea that you like have to figure it all out yourself and you have to like, you know, be so in love with yourself and all this and that before it really. Having another person, like, can be so beautiful. So yeah, and I just am so appreciative of Jillian because I, I was figuring out a lot of this stuff on my own and taking a lot of time and personal energy to figure this out, but you never made me feel like bad about myself that I was kind of late to the game, you know? There's like transformed. I feel like the beginning of our relationship, I immediately felt so safe and cared for by you. I always say there's, there's no right time to arrive. I love that. Or do you ever really fully arrive? I know. We could have a whole other podcast about that. Jillian, would you be so kind to share anything with us you want to share? Yeah, I grew up in a very, very religious community. I was born and raised Roman Catholic, went to church every single weekend, went to Catholic school. And I, like, truthfully, we, we talked about homosexuality. I'm doing air quotes. In the ways that it related to men or people assigned male at birth, but we never talked about it in relation to any other kind of gender. I didn't even know that non binary or like trans people existed. And to be honest, I didn't even know that like gay women existed. I, I like feel like I just grew up in this bubble. And I dated a lot of boys in high school, but Always like very surface level and I, I was in the early like Pinterest white feminist movement, very involved and I feel like that that was kind of like my earliest inkling. I truly had no idea that there was any other options out there until I kind of got to college and started to meet people that like. presented ways that I was like, oh, like I would love to cut my hair. I had really long hair and halfway through college, I like buzzed my head and that feels like the beginning of it for me. And, and truly when I buzzed my head, I was like, didn't even know that I was gay. What it wasn't related to sexuality at all. I was just like, Oh, I'm pursuing something here. And then I started to meet other gay women, other queer non binary people. And I. I kind of was like trying to figure it out and then I, I even dated some girls and then at some point I was like, I don't know. And then during COVID, I was on TikTok a lot and that honestly really helped me. I'm no longer on TikTok because it was so bad for my mental health. But I will say that like it connected me with a lot of people that looked like me or had similar experiences. And I think it was equal parts kind of what you touched on, letting go of the way that other queer people present and being like, oh, I can be queer in my own way. And then moving to Massachusetts really helped because I was around, like, real life queer people. Online community is for sure one thing, but I, like, needed other queer people to support me. And so I kind of went through the coming out process in a couple parts. I'm a writer. And do throughout all of this, I was like writing a lot of poetry. And that's the first time I ever like acknowledged that I might be gay was cause the pronouns in my poems switched like almost without me thinking about it, I just started writing with she, her pronouns and my love poems instead of, and I wasn't even really writing about anyone. I was just like, Oh, let's, let's switch this up. And then I came out to my immediate family during COVID. It's been a long learning process since then my extended family doesn't know or probably has assumptions, but it's not it's not a conversation. I'm going to have with them. And then, yeah, I feel like even then. Nothing really felt right until Shannon. So there's like the, there's, there's a certain amount of like, relationship experience that I personally needed to feel assured in my identity. I don't think that goes for everybody. But I even, even dating other girls, I was like, I don't know. This doesn't feel right. This doesn't feel right. And sometimes it takes the person. So I feel really lucky. Oh, my gosh. The star is truly just aligned. That's so beautiful. Wow. And yeah, I think well, I mean, the big takeaway is that all three of us are from religious backgrounds, so I mean, just like high fives all around for making it out of that and, you know. doing away with all the yuckiness that's sometimes associated with that. I think that's so interesting too, that the point you brought up about like male homosexuality, like I never thought about that until you brought it up. Like that, I think that was very much my experience in church too, because like, yeah, there was just like some weird assumption that like, if you were a man and gay, like you were automatically a pedophile and like. Yeah. So interesting. Yeah, they, they never ever talked about any type of non man being, being gay. So I was just like, I didn't even really know. I mean, I had two very close friends in high school that dated each other and I did not know until after high school. And one of my friends was talking to me about it and she was like, oh, my, my ex girlfriend. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, I was truly like blinders on that ignorant because I, Had no representation and, and the media at the time when we were growing up was so bad, like, there's so much more out there now, like, I, I didn't see a gay person on screen or a gay, like, woman on screen until in college, I watched the L word, which is so bad, you know, so, like, that's not even good, like, that's bad, so it took all of that for me to finally see a person that was not a man, you know, And even then I'm watching this going, this is not who I am. Like, so, so it took, it took a long time. But we're here now and I'm so excited about all of the movies and TV and. Stuff coming out now that's going to give people after us a fighting chance. Heck yeah. Yeah. I mean, think about how like you two both just express like feelings of like knowing something was there, but maybe not exactly having like the right, like words or expressions for it, which like I very much felt too. And then like having no, like nothing to like compare or be like. You know, compare your thoughts to someone else's, like, that's like, no wonder it's so friggin confusing. Yeah yeah. So again, yay to you for, for making it out, finding each other. Speaking of finding each other, let's talk about your story. This is the best part. I love telling about how we can go back and forth. Yes. Okay. So, well, just before we met, there are so many times in our lives where we could have or should have met. One of which being every summer growing up, I went to this specific beach town in Michigan for a family reunion and every summer during the same week growing up, Shannon was also there on the same beach and we tracked it. And the dates match up multiple times. Like, I ran in a 5k race that her mom ran in. So there's that. And then, you were in Los Angeles for an internship, and I went to college in Los Angeles, and that was the one summer I skipped. So we were there that I was working there there simultaneously. There's another one and I ended up going to college in downstate Michigan and at some point you were seriously considering going to college like an hour away from me. So I feel like we didn't realize all these tiny potential intersections until we started dating. Yeah, but sometimes it's fun. I like to think that, like, my life was circling and circling and getting closer and closer to you which to me feels like a very special metaphor, so just a fun little, like, silly thing we figured out after the fact. But we were both hired to be interns at Jacob's Pillow Dance Festival, which is a world renowned dance festival during the summer of 2020, and that was canceled for many reasons, you can imagine, but they invited all of the interns to come back. And I was a year older than Shannon at that time. And so I like graduated into that pandemic. And so I actually applied for a job at the pillow and got hired to work there full time, which was exciting. So I moved to Massachusetts and then Shannon ended up coming back the next summer to complete her internship. So at this point I was a staff member and she was an intern and we met each other. And we were around each other, but I was afraid of her because she's so nice, and I was like, she's hiding something. Like, there's, there's gotta be something wrong. I joke about it now because you're truly just the kindest human but I, I, at that time I was like, nobody can possibly be this nice. We've talked about this too, but this was the summer of 2020, and I, I don't know about everyone else out there, but I had only been in contact with, like, the closest people in my life for, like, a year at that point. due to safety because of the COVID 19 virus. And so coming to work at this, like, festival after, like, a whole year of, like, me having no idea what my life was going to look like, no ability to make plans I felt like a middle schooler again. Like, I was like, I don't know how to talk to people. Like, the only people I've been talking to me, who I've been talking to, like, know the deepest parts of me. So I, I don't have to be any which way. And then I, like, met like a hundred new people all at once that summer. And I was like, I don't know how to hold a conversation. That's being so weird. That's so rude. It's like middle school. So we were friendly. We were working together and we worked in different departments but our work overlapped a little bit so we got to know each other. And then at the end of the summer, they had an intern dance showcase, and I went to it as a staff member to support, and Shannon did a solo, and I saw her dance for the first time, and I was like, oh my gosh, like, not only is this person a nice person, but she's an incredible dancer, and I truly think that was the beginning of me, like, at least knowing that you were gonna be something special in my life, if not falling in love with you, but I just, like, I felt like I saw this side of you that I hadn't seen in our conversations because I mean, we were at work. It was post pandemic. We were all awkward. And so, so I feel like that was the beginning for me. And then I don't know if you want to keep going. Yeah. And then, as time went on, we ended up dancing together. Jillian invited me into a process of theirs which was a duet, and we ended up performing that together and then eventually, as time went on I think you realized that you were starting to have feelings for me, and I realized vice versa before I had gotten out of a relationship, and so afterwards These feelings started to blossom from our friendship because Jillian had been the sweetest friend to me. I feel like I've ever had here during that time. And we continued dancing together and spending more time together becoming closer friends. And eventually I feel like I realized, wow. I I have fallen hard for my best friend and I was convinced that I could make it like, a certain amount of time before I, like, had to tell them, like, I was like, well, I can wait it out, like, I just need to, like, I, I, they cannot possibly feel the same way, eventually I'll tell them, but I can wait it out for now while Jillian, I, I was, like, Jillian In love with you. Also, I didn't know that Shannon was queer at all for a very long time, and just, like, wanted to be respectful of that, and I also feel like I have some personal, like, trauma around the, like, predatory lesbian trope that's out there, which is really harmful, and so I feel like I didn't know how to, like, start that conversation, even in a way That was like productive and kind and so I was just like, I don't know what to do about this. And I have big feelings and I'm in trouble. And I remember I went on a trip to visit a friend out of state and I came back and we'd been apart for like a week and then we hugged in the rain. And I was just like, this is what it feels like. Anyway, so we were like dancing in circles around each other, literally and figuratively. And then finally we were hanging out at night. Oh no, it started the night before. Okay, this is my bold moment. While still maintaining that I was like waiting to tell Jillian about my feelings for them we went to a performance of Our Friends Together and I held their hand during the performance, like, full on middle school, like, Pinky finger first, like not looking like staring straight ahead at the performance. And then as soon as that piece ended, I was like, Oh my God, what have I done? And then I clap and then I like put my hands on my lap and like would not move them the rest of the show. And I'm sure Jillian was I was like, okay, he held my hand and then she took it away. Like, was that bad? Like, I don't know what to do. And then the next day we had plans to do a picnic, but it was Massachusetts in the winter and it snowed or something, of course. So we did an indoor picnic and we were like cuddling on the couch. And then at some point I was like. Are we gonna talk about this or are we just gonna let it keep going? And Shannon gave me this look like deer in the headlights and then we talked about it and we both liked each other back. Yeah and I, I, what's so funny is like I truly was like there's no way they like me back despite any signals that I feel like now in retrospect are very clear. At the time I was so terrified but it was. It's really magical and I knew how much I cared about you even that first day. Yeah. When we shared how much we care about each other. Yeah. I felt that way too. I knew, I was really nervous that you wouldn't reciprocate the feelings, but I also had this weird gut feeling that even if We didn't end up in a relationship. We still would have maintained our friendship after that. So at some point, I was like, I think we can cross this bridge no matter what the outcome was. And that really helped me like, be like, okay, can we talk about it so that we can like move forward in whatever way it was. It was very good. Happened and like, true. Did you keep up the middle school energy and you're like. I like you. And they're like, yeah. And you're like, no, I like, like you. I'm sure that if we had a recording of that conversation, it would be embarrassing. I think I remember I had worked the next day and I literally was just like, Catatonic. Like, I was like, I cannot function. I am so in love right now. Like, the middle school crush vibes were so strong. Like, I was like, my whole body. And I feel like I had never felt those feelings with any person that I had dated. And so, like, feeling that with you. And being like, oh, this is what they're talking about in all the songs and the movies was really affirming for me in all sorts of ways. Oh my goodness. We're not even like, I feel like through the full story and I'm like, this could be a movie. I'm also like, wait, are we just like describing like a queer dirty dancing moment? I know. I know. I always like to say, I, I'm a writer and I'm an avid reader and I always like wanted to like love story and I totally got it with Shannon. So I'm really lucky. Oh my gosh. Well, if it's ever in the cards and you decide to write like a play or a movie or a book about this. I will be there. Yeah. Great. So was that that conversation was that in 2021 then or when? Yeah, it was later. Yeah. Yeah. 2021. So we had known each other for Over a year at that point. Longer than that. Yeah. But it's really, I feel really lucky that we got to be friends for so long first. Yeah, it felt like transitioning into a romantic relationship together, like. Was so magical because we've been friends for so long. Like I already felt so much closeness and trust with you. Oh my God. That's so beautiful. Okay. So that that's 2021. Let's continue on how the story progresses. Well, all the happy things we moved in together after a while. And then we, after we moved in together, we started to talk about, like, What are your thoughts about engagement? What are your thoughts about marriage? If we did get married, what would it look like? And we started just like kind of for fun, toss up ideas. And that's something that I love about our relationship. We talk about literally everything together. And that started in part because we were friends first. So that's really special to me, but I don't know. Yeah, I feel like the, the like casual planning chatting about it as our relationship progressed and we moved in together, we got a lot more serious. We both had talked about our like dreams and goals and we realized we want to get married in our life. Like that's something that we want for ourselves. So that casual talking and planning turned into like actual talking and planning and we were like, wow, what would that actually look like? What ring would you like, you know, like, how do we start that conversation? And I, I thought it was so fun because I, I feel like I'd been presented a very straight version of these events throughout my life and the way it unfolded for us felt so organic and natural and like a real conversation and like so much fun. Like I'm like, we. Looked at rings together. We looked at a bunch of different styles. We looked at a bunch of different jewelers and like Yeah, it might not have had like a certain surprise Like aspect that it might come if you have no idea that something like that that's happening but I feel like I got so much so many more layers of fun out of it, you know, like days of like sending links to each other and and being like what do you think of this one like what's What's what's like? Your favorite and it was just really really fun and I'm really glad we did that together even if it's like my I don't know some people might consider it against the norm. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, and then eventually we we ended up getting the same ring from the same jeweler but with different stones. So we did that and We, we talked about that. We didn't want the rings to be a surprise because that's just a lot of stress and pressure. But we wanted the proposal to be a surprise. So we both ordered the rings probably a couple months ago. And then we both had separate proposal plans, honestly, for far off in 2024. And then we kind of had a rough year. We had a pretty rough move and some homophobic landlords, and so It was kind of a rough fall 2023, so But we, we got through it together and were really good to each other throughout all of the things that could have really caused any relationship to unravel. And so I think we both kind of moved up our plans. I was planning something in January. And then Shannon out of the blue sent me a Google Calendar invite for a day in Saturday, or a day on a Saturday in December. And so I was like, this is suspicious. We use Google Calendar. We do. We're nerdy like that, but not Not the way that not without explanation. Yeah. And on my end, I, I've been planning previously to propose like next summer. And then like Jillian said, all this stuff had happened. And I was like, man, I just really want to be engaged with Jillian. Like, I just want like us to end this year with something to really celebrate for ourselves. And I'm like, it's going to happen regardless. Like I wanted to happen sooner. And we kind of talked about like, we kind of like. Quietly address that we were moving up our timelines because I know you've been planning something later next year, too And then ended up thinking about doing it in january. And so I was like, okay, cool. I can plan something for december and very sneakily or unsneakily sent that google calendar invite And it was like setting a date making a plan. And Simultaneously being a very bad liar. Something I knew about myself, but I I don't think i've ever had to lie like that like Especially because we live together, we work together, like, it's really hard to keep a secret. So I was like, man, yeah, that was, that was, I was not very confused at all. But it all came to a head like the Friday night before the aforementioned Saturday Google calendar date. Where I was just expressing a general thought that I was like, Man, it would be really nice to have a weekend where we weren't doing anything. And it was truly a general comment, you know, the way that you say something. And Shannon heard that and started crying. And I was like, Oh no, like, what's wrong? And I was like, I am reacting so, like, so out of whack right now. And I was like, but you don't, like, I, I was like The floodgates just open because I had all this pent up stress. Like I talked to my therapist, like, how do I lie? Like, I'm such a bad liar. And she was like, girl, I'm worried about you. You are a bad liar. And so I was like holding it in and like trying so hard. And then I feel like, like part of me. I was like, Oh no, maybe this is the wrong day and like, we should just have a day to rest. And then like this, the stress of it all just came out and I started crying and I was like, I'm so sorry. You haven't done anything wrong, but I can't tell you why I'm crying right now. It was like, are you kidding me? And then at that point I was kind of thinking in my head, okay, something's going on. And I was trying to calm Channon down, she kept crying, and so finally I referenced that ep have you seen Schitt's Creek? And you know the episode where Patrick and David, like, get engaged? Spoiler alert. I'm not gonna say what happens, but basically I was like, are we Patrick and David ing each other? And Shannon was like, yes, so then the cat was out of the bag. And so, we spent the night like reading silly proposal fail stories. And yeah, it was actually really affirming. There are so many people online that talk about how their proposal plan didn't work out and how it didn't affect them at all. And it was really silly and funny. I was just like, I'm putting too much pressure on myself. And Jillian was really sweet about it. But at the end of the day, I was like. Do you still want to do it? Like I could plan a different surprise for you. Like, I'm sorry the cat's out of the bag. And Jillian was so sweet and was like, no, no, let's do it. I still want to do it, which was really lovely of you. Yeah. Well, and I also didn't know exactly what you were doing. But I had started to get some ideas cause I knew where we were going. And the funny part was, it was pretty much the exact same thing that I was planning. So I was like, at this point, I was like, frantically texting my two friends that were aware of this whole thing and like, should I also propose simultaneously? Which had not been the point, well, you've thrown it around, but like, that wasn't something that we talked about previously. Yeah, we didn't want to force that to happen. But at this point, I was like, well, that could be a big surprise. Yeah. And so we went about the day, the next day, it started with a really sweet, Shannon wrote me a little poem in a Winnie the Pooh book. I am not, I am not even close to the poet that Jillian is, but I try to repay them for their sweet poetry with my own silly ones. Speaking their language a little bit. Yeah. so special. I was crying instantly. And then we went to one of our favorite art museums and then at the art museum, I was like, is it happening? Like in every, cause I had the, I brought the ring with me and I was like, I'm going to feel it out. Cause I didn't want to upstage her proposal either. Cause she put so much effort into planning it. So I was like, I'm going to feel it out. We were in the art museum. it kept not happening. I was being sneaky. I talked to my therapist, my sister about this and they were like, well, if you want to throw Jillian off, plan something and then do it sometime else in the day. And so even though the cat was out of the bag, I was like, okay, I'm just going to stick to my original plan. And so we're just going about mass mocha for fun. And then we ended up going where we always go after going to our favorite. Art Museum, Mass MoCA our favorite queer bookstore, Barron B bookstore in North Adams. Yeah, shout out. Shout out. It's amazing. It's a very cute queer small bookstore in North Adams, Massachusetts. And so we went there and that was where I had Planned to propose number one because it's like super cute and really special to us. And two, because it, it's got a lot of like private nooks and is usually pretty quiet and like, I felt like it'd be a good atmosphere. So we made it there. But it was packed. But it was packed. There was whole many people, which is great for the bookstore. I want the bookstore to be packed, but I was like, this is pretty crowded And so Shannon was like looking around. And at this point I was like, and stuff will be happening soon and so she found this kids reading nook, which was definitely not large enough for two adults, but we like squeezed into it and nobody could see you like once you went inside of it. And so she proposed there and then I. Pulled out my ring and proposed back, which I had no idea what was going to happen. Like that was the biggest surprise ever. And I like burst into tears again and was happy crying and was like, Oh, this is so sweet. And Jillian was like, are you okay? Cause I was crying and I was like, this is the happiest moment of my life. I had like tears running down my face, but yeah, so that, so that we, we were engaged. And then by the time we came out of the kids reading the. Everybody had gone and it was just us and the bookseller and the book shop owner was kind of like, what are you doing back there? And she just started freaking out in a really cute way and it ended up being like a really affirming place to get engaged. And she took a photo of us and put it on our social media and it was really sweet and it was perfect because we had someone there to take a photo of us. But the moment was just between the two of us, which is something that we had talked about wanting some privacy. So it was really lovely. So cute. It's so adorable. And also I just, I'm like picturing you like crawling out of space, just like crying, like Do we need to call someone? I was told she was like, how is the kids reading it? And we're like, we got engaged, we promise we're not weird. You know? And it was so sweet. She was so sweet to us and it was really, really fun. Oh my goodness. That is so beautiful and so cool that you both got to propose to each other. And let's, let's have a moment for the rings. Describe them too. I have it's like three stones and there's a Dark blue sapphire in the middle and two topaz ones on the side and we're dancers So we wanted like rings that we could dance with so that's that's part of why we chose the ones we chose too And mine are the salt and pepper diamonds. They're really cool so they're they have more occlusions and can generally be marked as damaged, but they're really cool they are gray and they look different colors in different lights, but I I really love them and Honestly, a tip for people out there is that, like, shopping online for things is the best way to avoid microaggressions. Like, I found this person on Instagram. She had gay people on her page. I messaged her. It was great. I didn't have to interact with a single, like, jeweler in person. And got to support a small business. Yeah, so we got our rings from Lindsay Lewis, and she's a Chicago designer, so. Oh my God. I love that. I feel like that's like a tip that is so smart and helpful that I've never actually like thought about calling out. So wow. Thank you for calling that out. That's great. I feel like I, and it's also like, it's probably important to some folks to like have that experience in person, but it's just not like something that is like an experience that I like was really rooting for. So it was like totally great just buying them online. Yeah. I feel like. I had honestly learned that from, like, listening to your podcast and, like, hearing other queer people's experience about, like, microaggressions or being misgendered or whatever in wedding spaces, and I've really enjoyed I also like online shopping, so, like, it's really nice to be, like, oh, I could be in my own, like, rainbow home shopping and and assess for myself, like, whether or not I want to be engaging and That type of stuff. So that's so, yeah, that's so true. So, yeah, speaking of, I know this was, this is pretty recent for you too. So obviously very early on, but do you have any, like, dreams for your wedding day thus far into it? Yeah, we talked about it a lot just like hypothetically for fun last year. Now it's real, which feels really crazy and really exciting, really fun. And I feel really grateful, like, to have had that really special engagement day with you. We've really just been basking in that and like telling people and telling friends. And one thing that I realized about getting engaged, it's like a special way to connect with people you might not talk to in a while to like share the news. Like I've been calling a bunch of friends. I haven't talked to you in like a couple months. Just because it's something to talk about, which is really, really sweet. But yeah, we, we want to, we definitely want a wedding. We want a small wedding. We talked about maybe. Doing like an allotment but for us personally, we have a lot of friends all over, like the US, the whole country, like all over, that we were like, if we could have a moment to have at least some of them come together and meet each other and get to see them in this life, then we'd want to do that. So that's why we wanted to do a small wedding, like small big enough to accommodate close friends but not huge. Yeah. And we've just been like, I, I mentioned this before we started recording, but we live in a wedding area. We're in Berkshire County, Massachusetts. And so a lot of people like come here to get married. So the prices are pretty crazy and the timeline's pretty wild too. Like people book out like a year and a half to two years. So we, and we already had talked. about wanting a long engagement because we want to not have to stress about the process of wedding planning and make it really fun. So we're looking at like, 2025 wedding. We'd love to get married in the fall because it's so beautiful in New England. And then we really want to be creative. And since we have such a beautiful community here that feels like attached to us as a couple because we met here and got engaged here. We want to, like, draw on our community members and make it a really fun day. But yeah, that's, we have, we have some other plans in the work, but it's fun, it's fun that it's now not hypothetical anymore. Yeah, yeah, it's like, it's exciting. Yeah, it is it's such a good feeling, like. Yeah, even as like someone in the industry, because I also recently got engaged. Yes, congratulations! We're freaking out about it. We're freaking out about that. That was so sweet. Yeah, it's like I'm around it all of the time, which it sounds like you. Kind of are as well. And it's like, it's just, it's always so different when it's your own. So I'm so excited for you too. And like, can't wait to see what, what ends up happening. Wow. Again, I'm convinced you, you two could like star in a movie about this whole story. It's so beautiful. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing. Yeah. And honestly, kind of the, the hope and purpose of podcasts like this is I feel like. We, we kind of touched on it earlier, right? Like, there's still so much more representation that needs to be had, and I think all of us in the queer community are so beautifully unique in the kinds of relationships we have and how we met and our different backgrounds and heritages and all of that and so I'm hoping that more people can, can really relate. And on that note, I'm kind of curious from your own perspective. Perspectives, your own experiences. I'd love if you could answer a few questions kind of about. Speaking to other couples and maybe people that aren't part of the community, but just want to learn to so I'm curious what, like, your, your hopes and dreams and big magical goals are kind of for the future when it comes to queer love, queer weddings, all of the things. Okay, I'll go first. I think. I, I've just been thinking about, like, all the things we've been thinking about and wanting to do with our life, and, like Like, what, what we want to do to honor our love for each other and just thinking in general, I want for myself and for our society to assume less, ask more questions and be more open minded because like the love that I feel for you is so vast and hold so much and I want to do specific things to honor that and, and I am really lucky to have the privilege to get married to you. And I really want to do that. But that's It's different for everyone and everyone, like, has a different path with that kind of stuff. And so again, for myself and for everyone, I just want to be able to honor folks the way they want to be honored. Yeah, I feel that. And on that note, like Just having a more expansive view of how we can celebrate things, and I think about that a lot with, like, even the early wedding things we've thought about, there's so much, like, tradition and, like, weird, quirky, gross. Things that happen in wedding, in the wedding industry and even in that space. And so I, I would just love for people to let people do what they want. And also just like affirm that that's enough, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that. So almost expanding more, assuming less kind of. Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree. I hope that we can get there sooner rather than later. And yeah, I totally agree. I feel like just assuming less is like, it feels like such an easy, tangible thing to do. But we have so far to go. Yeah, and it takes so much like constant practice. I feel like, yeah, we're put into so many boxes. I mean, throughout our lives and even events are put into these like cookie cutter so they can be replicated and whatnot. And. I think that's the best part about queerness is it just breaks all of that open. Yes, absolutely. I love that. Okay. Awesome. Also, from your perspective we're obviously maybe a little bit younger and always still, like, learning and growing and whatnot, but I think that you probably still have gone through some really Like, you've grown a lot together and gone through things together, so I'm curious what advice you would maybe offer to other queer couples that are listening. I feel like something I've just learned. Being with Jillian I feel like it's just advice that I wish, like, maybe advice I wish I'd known, advice that I want to give to folks in, like, a committed relationship with someone is that whether it be a problem, an idea, or a dream, we tackle it as a team instead of feeling like it's one against the other in any way so if there's ever been, like, something that we want to fix, we want to fix together. I don't want to fix it about Jillian. Jillian doesn't want to fix it about me. We want to talk about it and figure out, like, how we can move forward together as a team. And I feel like a lot of time Media doesn't necessarily portray that or at least like I feel like I didn't grow up really seeing that around me It felt like in a lot of media you see it's like there's the fight and there's the makeup and everything's better and and instead I feel like what I've learned in like this relationship with you It's just that like life is hard, but loving you you'd like you say a lot which is really sweet. It's so easy and Like, even though life is hard, I know that we're going to figure out the hard parts together because I know that you're never going to try to put it all on me. We're going to find, figure it out together as a team. I don't know who told me, but at some point in my, like, searching, I've always been a huge romantic and I was always like, when am I going to meet the one? How am I, how am I going to find them? Like, where, where is it going to happen? Where's the meet cute? And I feel like I was always looking for that. And they always say, like, it happens when you're not looking, and that's definitely true, like, the moment that I, like, was like, okay, I'm gonna let it go, I'm gonna just enjoy my life, I feel like you stumbled right into me, and then, and then somebody else told me that it should be easy, and exactly like Shannon said, like, loving Shannon is so easy, our relationship is so easy, Life can be hard, and we have to tackle hard things together, but it just feels so right. And I think that's kind of, like, my segues into my advice for queer folks or queer couples, is that I feel like I didn't trust my intuition for a really long time, or, like, my gut feelings. Like, I was, I've been in a lot of relationships where I didn't feel good, or I've been in a lot of situations where I was, like, This still isn't right for me, even if on the outside it looked like the picture perfect, like, dream and I wish that I had listened to my gut more because when I did, it brought me to Shannon, and so, I think that that's hard, especially when, like, the advice around you is, is often telling you to not listen to your gut. Very wise, very great advice. I think that's so interesting. Like, honestly, a discovery I didn't have until recently of like, I totally agree that it's kind of like, it is also cheesy, but the whole feeling, like, when, you know, you know, like, yeah, with that person, but I feel like. Also coming from the religious background, like I was taught the exact opposite to like, not trusting my gut until like, you know, bring all your thoughts to God, whatever, and like, only listen to that, which kind of messes you up a little bit and then like trusting your gut department. So, yeah, I think yeah, again, glad that we are not in that space anymore. And I think, I think that's great advice. Cause I feel like you just know. Yeah. And to some people it can sound rushed or hasty or I don't know. I mean, I remember the second day that we were officially dating, quote unquote I told a friend of ours that I was going to marry you because I knew like, and, and that sounds to some folks hasty, but it truly, like I felt it in my like being and I wish I had listened to that part of myself, like before. In this life. Yeah, and I, I, it probably does sound cheesy and cliché, but I was like, I have never once felt this way about any person in this lifetime, you know, and I, I feel like, like, I saw life in color, you know, like, I, And it's so cheesy, like, I had heard these things my whole life, and like, love songs, and movies, and, or just like, you know, people, things people say, and I guess I had this silly moment of like, ah, I guess the things people say can be cheesy. I'm like, oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure we sound disgusting. Yeah, I know, I'm sorry. I feel like the cheesier it is, the more, like, true and right on it is, so. We love listening to queer content and we also really love listening just to like queer folks in love or queer folks that are happy. And that's part of, we, we've been talking with you that we were fans of your podcast and we just loved, before even getting engaged, just getting to dream about like queering, like. Weddings and like queer relationships and stuff like that. So, yeah, that's awesome. Well, I know you two have already imparted so much wisdom on all of this year, but I'd love to end with this kind of just a bonus question. I thought of before you hopped on, just so like, if in case there's someone out there listening who might benefit, like, is there anything that you would have wanted to hear as a queer person, like on your journey or growing up? I feel like that there's. no one way to be queer, and it doesn't look a certain way, it doesn't act a certain way. I feel like even when I finally brushed into queer communities, I still was comparing myself and being like, well, I don't look like that, I don't act like that, so clearly I must not be. And that was really hard to get out of. It took me, like, even into my early 20s to get there. And as we get more and more representation, that's really exciting, but on the flip side, I think it creates more opportunities for that to happen. Like, you see all the gay folks represented in media, and you're like, oh, I don't look like any of them. I don't act like any of them. And so, I just, I leave that as an invitation, that queerness can be whatever it needs to be for you. I guess I would say I feel very similarly about that. I, I feel like I was around, I, I've always, I've been around a lot of queer people for a lot of my life and for a lot of my life would put myself in a box because for whatever reason, I felt like, I, like, visiting my queerness, like, somehow I would get there and realize that I'm, like, a fraud, or like, it's, it's not real, or, or like, I am different than the other, I'm not as relevant, I'm not as valid as, like, the other queer people in my life and I feel like, I, I put myself in the box. And was having a hard time getting out. And then when I finally kind of let myself open up to those feelings I felt like I was blowing my whole life up. And I wish I had known that like, Even if it feels like you're blowing up your whole life, like what is on the other side, like feels so much better than you can ever imagine. And I, I'm really grateful that happened and my life is so beautiful now that I think back to what I used to like put as a standard for myself and think I could be okay with and think was that's just how life is, you know, these problems just are there for everyone. They're not I was gay and I'm really glad that I finally did blow up my whole life. So, yeah, I, I guess, I don't know what my full point is there. I always, I always joke that if you think you might be gay. You're gay. Because I used to be like, Oh, like what if I was gay? Wouldn't it be great to be gay? Yeah, you would think that. You'd be like, I wish I was a lesbian. Well, good news! I mean, it is on like a spectrum, so yes, you're right. Oh my goodness. Wow. Thank you two so much. Truly, genuinely, it was such a joy to hear your story and like, just see the joy on your faces. Like, oh my goodness. I feel so honored to have seen just this little glimpse into your life. And I'm so, so happy for you two. And like, can't wait to just kind of like keep watching and seeing how things unravel for you two. Thank you so much. It's fun to talk about it. Even if you've been together a long time, it's so fun to relive those moments when you like first knew. Oh, absolutely. Awesome. Well, Queerly Beloved, thank you so much for joining us this week and please join us next week for our next episode.