41. The Importance of How We Interact and Talk to Queer Couples

Not only do the words we have on our website and in our social media bios matter, but also how we are showing up and chatting with our queer couples for their photos and on their wedding day.
In this episode, I give some practical tips for things that I actually say to my couples to keep things feeling gender-netural and a safe environment, please steal them if you find it helpful!
As always, thanks for listening! :)

The intro and all instrumentals were written, sung and recorded by @JaynaDavisMusic

Queerly Beloved, I'm so glad you joined!
Please keep the community going by checking me out on instagram @wildlyconnectedphoto and come say hi! I'd love to hear from you! :)

Transcript

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-2: 0:41

Weirdly beloved. Welcome back to this week's episode. I wish you all a good morning, afternoon or evening whenever you're tuning in. And hopefully you all are starting to experience some of the lovely spring that we are having. My name is Ana. I assure. She her pronouns and I am the owner and photographer at wildly connected photography. My DMS are always open. So if you are listening or tuning in, please feel free to say hello. Otherwise, if you're listening on Spotify, I would love to, if you would type out some of your thoughts about this episode and. Leave it in the fun little Spotify interactive thing. That is really professional of me. So this week's episode might be a little bit shorter and honestly kind of came spur of the moment I had other plans, but this has. Been sort of on my mind for the past couple of months. Something that I've just. Been thinking about and experiencing and wanted to chat about it. Especially as I think. It feels really relevant. Just as. I don't know. I think since releasing the how to be LGBTQ affirming versus LGBTQ friendly episode, which if you have not yet listened, please have it back a few episodes and listen. Honestly, probably one of my favorite episodes to date, because I think it's really, really important for all of us to make that mental shift. And. I feel like it just really, really clicked in my brain, like my own brain, even now just being able to like, Tell people that that means it's a verb. It's an action. It's being active and actively showing up. So. I think. It's even shifted my own perspective on how I think about things. And that's kind of why I wanted to do this week's episode. Because, like I've been saying for the past couple of weeks, words matter and what we say and what we do. And especially what we say they do really matter. And so. If you've been an OJI listener have been listening from the start. And or have retroactively gone back and listen to early episodes. There is probably going to be some similarities here to some of the episodes that I first released. I did two back to back episodes about how to pose LGBTQ couples. I did one that was sort of more, a couple of facing one that was sort of more a photographer slash vendor facing. And so there are probably going to be some similarities here, but. I wanted to sort of do a refresher on that because I think it's important. And B. Just talk a little bit more generally. I think Because I think the language and how we interact with our LGBTQ couples and clients is super, super important. And honestly, I think this is something that I see even for, for photographers, who might have like the rainbow flag in their bio or. Who say that they are LGBTQ friendly, these things are things that I think people don't may not even realize or are doing it because they feel that maybe it's going to make the experience better. But honestly, it's just sort of. Odd. And so I just want to kind of talk about our interactions, like what we say, what we do. During a session during a wedding day. And so for couples listening, I do hope that you will stick around. I have some notes for you at the end. But for a lot of photographers and other wedding vendors tuning in. Definitely turn on your listening ears. So. This concept is. I think. Been on my brain so much, because I think I've just witnessed things. And the past couple of months that I'm just like, Ooh, like. These things I don't think are ever done with malicious intent. Like it's not, they're not malicious. It doesn't make people bad people or anything not extreme. I think it's just sort of like, Ooh, that just sort of, Gave me the echo a little bit. And. So I hope that this again is not like, wow. These demands. I just keep coming and like, I can never get things, right. Like, no. I think. It's just important to like put it out there to acknowledge it. Like, I don't know, calling it out even feels like maybe too strong of a word, but. Just to be like, Hey. These things I know you're trying, but it's just not quite it. And how can we do things a little bit differently? So I wanted to start out with some examples, things that I've seen, things that I hear about. And a lot of this will be like posing specific because I think that's just a very like physical manifestation of these kinds of things, but there are things beyond posing as well. The first one that comes to mind is. I very often see you when working with other photographers and, or. Like photos on Pinterest or on Instagram, if there is a lesbian couple or two people that identify as women. And one of them happens to be wearing like pants and like a button up or a suit or whatever. Like just automatically from the get go, people are like, yes. She's going to do the masculine poses and that's that. And I just, no, that's just not it like. I get that. If they, as a couple are mirroring what you traditionally see for other sessions, then it's easy to jump into that. But just because someone's wearing pants or a suit that does not automatically mean that the entirety of their energy. Is masculine or that the quote unquote traditional manly poses. We'll feel good for them. Like, that's just. I think it's a bold assumption to think that a lesbian woman wants to pose the same exact way as a man. Just saying. And then another thing that I frequently see is just. Oh, The absolute. Fear that I see. Sweep across some people's faces when they realize that maybe there's two suits or maybe those two dresses or something totally different. And they. Go into panic mode because. They're unsure of like what to do with people that are wearing two of the same thing, you know, traditionally they're like, oh, well, Usually I do this pose like this because it shows off the dress, but if there's no dress and like, what do I do? And. You know what, like, if you haven't yet had this experience, I'm not coming at you. Like that's great. Please go find some experiences like practice and learn and look at Pinterest and things like that. But I think just the panic that occurs of like, oh my God, like. There's two people wearing suits. Like what do I even do? Like what, what do I even show off? Right. Cause I think. Yeah, that concept goes back to like my my episode all about. The word bride and how there's so much emphasis put on the word bride. And if there's not address, present, It's like people freak out and you can see like the confusion and the panic. And so I would just say like, Look at Pinterest. Talk to people. Yeah. I'm jumping ahead of myself. Cause I'm, I'm going to give some examples of how to move past these things coming up. But. Another thing that. Maybe some of you may think that this is a little bit mean for me to say, but it's something that I, myself and my partner have personally witnessed and experience. Her. And I have modeled for folks as well as just like done other photo shoots and. I think something that we've experienced that. Just doesn't feel quite right as when people just try too hard. And I know that may sound harsh, but. Sometimes people will show up with this energy of like, oh, well, these two are gay. So like, that's how I'm going to like present during this. The session of like, I don't, I don't know exactly how to eloquently put it into words, but it's sort of like, As if they were to show up to a session with us, just like slay queen, oh, work at girl, like that kind of thing. We've definitely experienced that. And it's just like, That's not us. Like for us personally, that's not our energy. And like, We've never been like upset or mad at someone who's done that. Right? Like we see that they're trying to connect that. They're trying to, you know, make a, a fun environment for us. And that's great. And we do appreciate that, but. It's also just like not authentic to us. And it just gives us like a little bit of the egg, like. I promise you don't have to try that hard. Like you don't have to. Sort of like put us in that box almost like for some people that might truly be true and authentic to them. And, and if you pick up on that energy, like run with it, please, by all means. But it's just not the case for everybody. And so. You know, bring. Kindness into your session, bring good energy like, and you can bring energy. But it doesn't have to be sort of that like, Stereotypical energy that I think people sometimes bring when they realize that they're working or interacting with someone queer. So I think really just like, be cool. Be chill. It's all good. Unless it starts to feel like. What you're envisioning is really authentic to the couple. Think. That there are so many more examples, but those are just a few. And I did also want to note that. Honestly, like some of this. Applies to how I see. Photographers in particular interacting with straight couples too, right? Like. I think that I'm so deep into this world and into this mindset now that seeing photographers do this as straight couples, like also makes me feel a little bit weird, honestly, like. I think if we can shift how we think about things, it will have a really, really positive impact on just like. The industry in general and also just the world. Right. Of like, there are so many times when I'm with photographers and there's a straight couple and it's just like, so automatically right off the bat, like. Okay. There's a man and a woman. So we're going to have the man like lead the woman. We're going to have the man pick up the woman. We're going to have the man twirl. Like, it's just very like right off the bat. Putting you into you into boxes and that's that. Honestly. Yeah. How many times can I say it gives me the egg in this episode, but. I mean, really, like we never know either too, right. Like, just because it's a man and a woman. We don't know, like one or both of them could be part of the community and they're just presenting as a straight couple. And they might really, really appreciate if you didn't have the, do those stereotypical man and woman poses, like they might really, really appreciate just doing things more neutrally. So. I think the message here is that. Just. Thinking about. Our interactions and how we're interacting with our queer couples, which often means doing things. A little bit more neutrally, but also. Really understanding the couples dynamics like that is going to be so, so good for any couple. And I feel like just will enhance. The experience for couples across the board. Again, I know that this is likely going to have some overlap with an older episode, but I just felt it was really, really important to refresh us all on this subject. Which is why I wanted to just share some of the practical things that I do during my sessions. And. If these sound good to like, please steal them, steal them, take them, do, do what you will with them because. I think it's really, really important. And I. I have tried to work hard to make my sessions feel like a really safe experience and feel authentic to the couple. So one of the first things that I do with a session is just laying out the ground rules. And I'm sure so many of you do that. But I think it's really, really important to say like, Hey, if I say something that doesn't feel good or authentic to you. Or if I like make a suggestion of something we should do or try and you're like, actually no, like that really, it doesn't feel like us. That feels a little bit weird. Like. Let them know it's okay. Like. It's a safe space and they're allowed to say no, if they feel uncomfortable. And I think just making that abundantly clear because sometimes. Couples are a little bit shy or. If they're like me, they're afraid of sounding me in or anything like that. And just being like, Hey, truly. It's okay. It's no big deal. If you don't want to try something. That's okay. Like just making that really, really clear. Because I also think we often forget what it's like to be in front of the camera and couples are often really nervous to be in front of the camera. So. You know, they might just be doing whatever you say, because I think that's just how it is and that's how it goes. And they don't know that there's an option to do something differently. Right. So. I always start my sessions with that. And then now I am going to give some specific examples here, but. Just like across the board, like so many things I say in this podcast, just keeping it neutral, like starting with a very neutral mindset, a neutral framework. And then personalizing it based on the couple because really like. The only time I'm ever like very specifically, like. Why this person needs to do this. And this person in the couple needs to do that is like, If I want to try a pose that's height dependent, and then it's, you know, You're not assuming like, oh, This person's going to stand in the back because they're more masculine. It's like, Hey, I have this idea for a post, but like, Hey, since you're a little bit taller, like it's going to work better. If you see it in the back. Like, even that I think. Shifting that sort of language can be really, really helpful. Practically speaking again, like I said, I hope. That some of this is helpful and that you can steal these and try these in your own sessions. But. There's something about the like, Leading photos that I think they're super cute. Like I definitely take them. Cause I think they're fun and cute. And especially if in your, like a big, wide open naturey area, like it just, yeah, I'm rambling, but. I always start with, Hey, what'd you do to tends to be more late. And then they'll answer and whoever is usually late or more behind. They going back and their partner goes in front. Like that's how we determine it. So I think the cool thing about this is that you can make the sessions like more fun and like a little bit of a game almost too. And it's really fun too, because that enhances the experience for the couple to write. Like I mentioned, because. Then they have this fun little conversation. Sometimes they sort of play argue and they're like, oh, well, I don't know. Sometimes you're late. And it becomes like, it makes it fun. And it makes sort of a little small memory for the couple to. Another thing I do is if we're doing something. Just for an example, visually, like if there's a Ben tune, you're going to have one of them sit and maybe the other is going to stand behind them. Just ask them like, which of you wants to sit and which of you wants to stand and let them determine that. Another thing that I do. Instead of being like, Hey, John. You. pull in Jake. I will be like, Hey, who would it feel more natural for this to happen? Like, if I am picturing a, a photo where one of them is kind of pulling the other end for a kiss, I'm like, Who would it feel more natural for this to happen? Like who do you think would do this? And then they're kind of like, usually they're both like, oh yeah, like I will do this. And it just you're like, oh, okay, cool. Like, Maybe I want to guess that maybe I would have, I don't know, but you're asking them and it gets them really, really involved and. Feel like they're collaborating in the process too. You can say, how would you normally greet each other when you come home from work? Would either of you ever spin or twirl or pick up the other, like you're asking them questions. And it gives them permission to be like, Yeah, and this is how we're going to do it. And then they'll just do it. Or they might say like, no, that that's not something we really want to do or feels like. Part of how we express ourselves. And that's great. You ask the question and you move on. And I think like I miss all of these things that can feel more personalized. Just continue to do things that are super neutral, right? Like, I don't think there's always a need for there to be a ton of photos where there's. I again, I don't know how to eloquently say it, but almost where you can see the traditional gender roles. You know, things like holding hands. Things like kissing things, like putting your foreheads together or rubbing noses, like so many of those things that can be super, super neutral, like make sure to sprinkle in lots of that too, because. That'll just help things, keep things neutral and. Also, they're just cute. So. Yeah, those are some things that I do in my sessions. I think really, really, really the mentality to have is ask them questions. And like the fun part is, is that you learn so much about them. By asking these questions. And this goes beyond photographers too. Like planners Flores vendors, like ask them questions. I will say that until the end of time asking questions. We'll give you a really, really good understanding of how to interact and treat each individual couple. Cause that's such a beautiful thing about the queer community too, right? Is that we're all so different and how our relationships present are also different. And not to say that that's not true within straight relationships. I believe that there is beautiful. Diversity there as well, but there's just so many more dynamics present and it's really, really cool to get to learn about a couple in this way. And so. For the couples who have stuck with us and listened. If there are things that you have experienced in sessions or while planning your wedding. Please, let me know. I would love to be able to share with other people, some things that you've experienced and how we can. Make those better or more neutral experiences. But I think this is just my message to you to hopefully remind and empower you. To speak up. If you feel that a photographer or a vendor. It's sort of cornering you or putting you into a box like. Please let us know. I know that's sometimes easier said than done, but. It's it's our job like. We are carrying your love story in our hands. If it sounds very dramatic, but like for this, this time, when you're planning a wedding or kind of putting your love on more display for the world to see like, We are carrying that and we want to do that well And so. I think it can look like, you know, before an engagement session, letting your photographer know, like, Hey. We don't really want to do any pictures of us, like picking the other up or in talking to other vendors, just like, you know what, like. A lot of the traditional like quote unquote broad or quote unquote groom roles, just like don't really apply to us. And. We would love to just like show up as ourselves and not feel like we have to do certain things just because of our names or pronouns. Like. I know that can be really hard and scary to say. But hopefully if you're working with the right people, they will hear you and receive that well, and. Be able to carry that energy going forward. So. Yeah, I'm just encouraging me really to as best as you can speak up for yourselves or. You know, have your friends or family help you with that too? Because. Yeah, how, how we speak to the community and interact with the community is so important. So. Clearly beloved. Thank you so much for tuning in and for listening. Again, I do know. That this has some repeated themes from earlier episodes, but I think it's really, really important to be reminded of this. And to be reminded that like going into 20, 24 and like the upcoming busy wedding season, like. There are so many things that we can be doing. To make our LGBTQ plus clients feel more safe. And things that we should be carrying over into every wedding and how we interact and treat couples that. We'll hopefully have a greater ripple effect on the entire wedding industry and just like. Basically encourage the industry to be more neutral and ask more questions. I think that's, that's really the goal here. So. If you ever have any questions about. More things that you could be saying or doing or trying during your sessions or in, when you're interacting with clients and couples. Please don't hesitate to reach out. I'm always happy to chat about it. And always just happy to chat and say hello to any of you. So clearly beloved have an amazing. Morning day evening, and I will see you next week.