46. Queer Couple Experts Weigh In on Managing Stress Before/On Your Wedding

Today I speak with Queer Couple Experts, Ash and Dawn Noble who have helped many queer couples with their relationships. We don't often have models of how to navigate things as queer couples- and that's where these two come in! Because weddings are such a unique and often stressful time, I wanted to hear their expert advice on how to navigate the stresses of wedding planning and also how to encourage and uplift one another.
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Transcript

0:41

Queerly Beloved, welcome back to this week's episode. I have Dawn and Ash with me here, and I have been watching them from afar on the internet for so long, so I'm so excited to have them here. And I would love to just pass the mic right off to you two, have you two introduce yourself and your pronouns, and then maybe share a little bit about what you do. Yeah, my name is Ash Noble. Pronouns are she, her. Yeah, I'm Dawn Noble. She, her. Yeah. Yeah. And we we work together working with queer couples in our, we specifically do a 10 week program for queer couples that want to build a really safe and secure relationship together. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is what we do. Yeah, we've been doing running a group program with queer couples for the last year and a half now. And so, but working with queer couples much longer than that, but, yeah, helping them build safety and security. That is so beautiful and so needed, I think, in a world that is still very heteronormative and. There's not always, like, the same level of resources for, for queer couples as there are for, like, their straight counterparts. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, I mean, just queer representation. So many queer couples don't have, other relationships to really look to as a model of safety and security. And so we're here to help kind of lead the way and and show people how to do that. Yeah, I think it's true. Yeah, that is good. And just for the, the folks who don't know. You two are married and congratulations on your one year. That's amazing. Would you mind sharing just like how you two met and a little bit about you? Oh my God. Are you ready for some lesbian drama? A real lesbian story here. We, we kind of collided in a way where We were married previously to different partners and our wives at the time ended up in an affair together. Yeah, yeah, it was the kind of peak of COVID. And, and we lived in different states they ended up meeting online. My wife and I my wife, it was a therapist at the time and offered built like a, a Facebook support group for non affirming, you know, family and friends for queer couples. Well, for queer couples with not a family. Yeah. Oh, sure. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah Ash and her wife at the time attended that. And so they ended up in a friendship and then, you know, over the time things happened. So, after the separation. Of our marriages, we ended up kind of putting the story together and finding each other. And yeah, we fell in love. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. We connected and we were like, wow, we're really good fit. This is weird. How is this possible? Yeah. Yeah, we have a, we have a podcast that we put out a couple of years ago, just kind of for our own journey of telling the story of it all. If you want all the details, it's there. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I can definitely put it in the show notes. Yeah. Talk about like a silver lining out of a messy situation. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely lean into the one. Yeah, that's so true. Yeah. And so, yeah, let's keep talking about the things that you do a little bit. So did you to like, at what point in your relationship? Did you kind of start? Putting things out there for other couples. Yeah, I had been doing it for a while, probably for a number of years. Really wanting to relationships just became kind of an obsession for me and how to do queer relationship. Well, like Ash was saying, none of us have models. I'm like, if you think of any other profession or like an artist or athlete. We have people that were like, wow, I want to, I want to play like them, or I want to do it like them. But if you think of a couple, a queer couple, like, What are they doing and how do they have that kind of relationship? Most of us can't even think of one, one model, you know? And so, especially how hard we, we work and how much we lose to be in these relationships in a queer community, then you get in it and it can be hard. And, and and so I really wanted to be able to teach couples how to be in a Really secure relationship together. And so I was doing it. And so when Ash and I got together, you know, going through our own grief process, the loss of our marriages. And we kind of came together and realized we have a united vision with this. And so, starting with our own relationship and then wanting to support others. Yeah. And I was really focused on relationship with the self. That was something that I leaned really heavily into toward the end of my previous marriage, but after that marriage fell apart I just completely dove into all things nervous system and learning about my own body and building this relationship here and wanted to be able to help other people. People be able to do that as well. And so, yeah, I started working one on one with queer queer women. And then we ended up working together and combining, so yeah. Caring for the relationship for the couple and for the individual as well, and that relationship. So yeah, it's been a whole journey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like it. Are there any things that feel really important to you too, and how you approach and run your practice? Yeah, I mean, gosh well, one thing that I think is so different with us and how we run our practice is, thank you, I got hair in my mouth. Good looking out. Yeah. Is that we're, we're heavily skills based and really trying to pass skills on to couples to integrate into the relationship and learn how to do it differently. That. And like I was saying just a moment ago, we lean into caring for the couple and caring for the individual relationship. We have a lot of clients and couples that we work with who ask that question, you know, should I do individual work? Like, do I need to heal myself first before I can be in a relationship or, or other couples who think they have to, Feel within the relationship that they can't do it on their own. And we know that we really need both both really matter. And so, yeah, a couple of things that. Yeah, we focus on, yeah, very skilled based and then we're trained in a, a psycho biological approach. So it's very I was trained by Dr Stan tack and who developed the model pact. It's a science based approach based upon, like, how the. Body and nervous system respond to threat and connection within our primary relationships. And so teaching couples, like, you know, we think that love is enough like, oh, we love each other. We've never felt this way. We gave up everything to be together. And in reality, the things that really create security is feeling safe and secure together. And so those moments of what do we do when we're both triggered. Or activated. Or activated. How do we protect our relationship from the world? How do we, you know, make decisions together and our differences, different attachment styles. So we teach couples based upon this model. Mm-Hmm. how to do that together as a couple versus turning on each other. Yeah. You know, going to war. Yeah, that is so great. Like, you're not, of course, I think we all need, like, spaces to, like, talk and have people listen, but, like, to actually be giving people, like, tools that they can put into a toolbox. Like, that is. That is amazing. So yes, on top of all the gays, thank you for your service. Yeah, yeah, I know. We got, we have so many couples who are like, you know, just communicating feels hard. Right. And so really leaning into those skills, offering scripts to offering scripts to couples and try this out and what it would feel like to respond this way is we have found has been really impactful. Follen. Incredibly helpful for, yeah, I would, I would say one of the things that we drive home that we really value is with couples work, like traditional couples therapy, we can tend to get stuck on talking about what's not working and why your partner is the difficult one. Like, why do they do that? Why did you say that, you know, and spending all this time on, like, working on each other instead of working on the problem in a collaborative way. And so we are like, okay, how can we fully equip you to have these skills and no one taught you as a couple so you don't have to stay in therapy forever, or, you know, what to do when things come up like that's that's really what we try to go heavy lean into. Awesome. Yeah, and I mean, this will be. One of many plugs, I'm sure. But these two have a TikTok and an Instagram and they post very like. Helpful educational videos, and you two do a really, really good job at like showing very specific scenarios and kind of walking people through them. So, I would love today to talk specifically about weddings. Yeah. I think, as we all know, like, weddings can be a really, really stressful thing, just like, in general, across the board, but I think, also, queer couples face unique challenges on top of that, you know, whether it be, you know, fear of reaching out to vendors or things with their families, or Coming out, you know, there's just like so many extra layers and so, yeah, let's talk about weddings are there that couples can kind of manage their stress around, yeah, how to manage the stress around the weddings. Yeah, because the pressure is on you feel it. I mean, it's financial pressure. It's like you said, like, reaching out to vendors and not knowing. Are they queer friendly, right? Or, you know, inviting it's the guest list too. I mean, there's so many layers to it all. And so it's really important that the couple has each other to really rely on when the pressure comes on during this season. I think that. When a couple is under stress, the wedding is 1 example, but there's going to be lots of examples, like, lots, the wedding will just represent, you know, and give us information on how well we know each other and how we care for each other under stress. And that's going to be the most important things for couples as they move in together or plan a wedding or have a baby. That's where we really see errors happen with stress because we think we know each other, but then when we're under stress, we realize we really don't because how do I, when my partner's struggling, how, how well do I know them and how well can I bring them relief and help them feel cared for and known and when I'm totally different, you know, I have different. So, I think that I think this is really good information for couples to move through and learn about themselves. We just went through this and we were talking about a year ago, what stressors were we going through as a couple planning our wedding? And one of them just in the As we experienced in like the queer experience was family that a majority of them were very supportive and, and advocates and had our backs that were I was, we both were raised, would you say in a religious upbringings? Yeah, you were heavily religious. I was raised Mormon. Yeah. And I was raised Methodist. Yeah. And so. Christian Light. I like Very true. Very true. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. Christian Light That was a, that was a tough one for us, and it had to manage that family, that, that wasn't gonna show up. So there's like a, there was a grief. In the excitement that we had to care for, both were present. Yeah. And unfortunately that really, that that's something that a lot of you know, queer couples we work with experience as well. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's one thing to you know, you move into this season planning a wedding and you might know, or have an idea of, you know, I've been estranged from this family member for a while. But it's 1 thing to know it and anticipate it and expect it and another to actually move through it. And so 1 of those stressors also being like, you know, caring for a stressor and creating room for grief to come up around the actual processing of that and going through the event of it. Yeah. It's huge. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when I'm thinking about stress. With a couple in a going through a wedding building. Oh, sorry. We're going to call in. There we go. A lot of couples in those, you know, you have a date in all these things that have to happen. And it's something that we can do that can cause this kind of dangerous, but a mindset we can get in is let's just get through it. Let's just, let's just get to the day. Let's get married and we'll figure this out. And what I want to say in that moment. That the stress that we're under and how we treat each other and care for each other is going to follow you, whether it's the wedding or something else. So we want to prioritize that stress and how we move through as a couple. As like the most important thing, like, okay, we're both stressed. How can we come together as a couple and care for each other better fully resourced together instead of just managing different stressors alone. Right? Because we all handle stress differently. Yes. Does that make sense? Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. And so, like, practically speaking, could an example of that be like, asking your partner, like, what things are you stressed about and how can I help you navigate that? Or how would you say, like, practically that? Yeah, I, well, what would you say first? I feel like I'm chatting a lot and talking a lot. Well. You and I, what we did from the very beginning was we kind of split things up, knowing that there were really like, difficult things to deal with the financial aspect, you know, the stressor of finances and wanting to have your own plan and budget around that. But also you know, the guest list and other other aspects, we checked in with each other and asked, what would be. Better for you, right? In terms of what would you like to take on? What would you like to carry? How can we care for each other in this? And we checked in with each other. I think that's a big thing is, is checking in with your partner throughout the process. Yeah, and. How are you doing with this? How, how is this feeling for you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think the acknowledgement and just being able to say like, Hey, I can see we're both really struggling here. We're both really stressed. And keep it to the, we, instead of, I can see you're struggling and you are stressed. Like, Hey, let's sit down and figure this out. Like this really matters to both of us. And I want this to be a really lovely experience, but it is stressful for us. So how can, What could we do that would help each other move through this better, like sitting down together and not waiting till like the end of the week on, on date night, or, you know, when you have a chance to get away, we want to care for each other in the day to day. And I would say like staying curious about your partner's experience. Cause I think, well, not, it's not, I think we, I know we can, you know, Automate our partners and we can start to move through life. Like we just know them, right. And we lose that sense of curiosity around who you are, what this is like for you. And so staying curious about that and open to your partner's experiences. So, I mean, that was incredibly helpful for me. You checking in with me and wanting to know. Yeah, rather than assuming that I had it. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that is yeah, that is amazing. Where did you have any conversations as far as like. Okay, it gets to the actual wedding day and like, you know, I'm going to give you a look if I'm feeling stressed or I need a moment. Or did you have any kind of conversations as far as like, when things sort of happened in the midst of everything or like on the day of. Well, I mean, we planned, we planned day for us to connect that morning and spend time together that way we could really back in with 1 another. Yeah, oh, I was thinking. I was thinking, was there signs, but if, if those things should be happening in, in all the days, if, if we're not doing it in the days leading up the day of the wedding, when things are under, like, the most, you know, anticipation and expectation, right? Busy day, you want to be able to we always say, like, you want to protect each other in public and in private, like, they are your number 1 and so, by the wedding date. You know, hopefully we've been practicing and caring for these skills where we could see kind of how each other are doing and how we would respond to it, what they might need the dance, the dance where everybody was looking at us was, I was terrified. I thought, oh, my God, I am gonna and that was when the ash was looking forward to the most, you know, and so in it, we were able to, you know. Like, she cared for me so well in my discomfort while we were dancing by like, just whispering in my ear, like, you got this. I'm with you. We're going to move through this. And so it was, and so she was able to care for me and help me stay more present in the dance. While she also that was a really important moment for her. Yeah, I, I, that was a really, that was a really beautiful moment where I felt like we, we both really cared for each other and that but we had, you know, like you said, it's like, we had these conversations in the days and wasn't just about The wedding day itself. It was everything before that, but also really getting curious with each other around like, Hey, are there any parts of this that you're nervous about, or that's freaking you out a little bit, or that you're uncomfortable with or and so I knew the dance was going to be. Something that was hard for Dawn and she was leaning into it cause she knew that I was really looking forward to it. And so, yeah, I, yeah, I mean, for me, it was like, it was just us on that moment. But yeah, I wanted you to know, like you're safe here because it was, it was really helpful. That's the ultimate feeling though, in that moment, like, is you not, you weren't feeling like, okay. I'm on display. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I just started tearing up. That was so sweet. Oh my gosh. So it sounds like you are saying a little bit that there should be plenty of practice ahead of time, including like sort of just how to like read your partner and like. Understand sort of, you know, what they're saying, or maybe even what they're trying to, like, non verbally. Express even. Is that accurate? Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. we teach that a lot. That is a, a big thing that we teach. Yeah. Yeah. We always say like, we're in each other's care. Yeah. Like, we are going to care for each other. And if we treat each other poorly or we're ignoring signs we see, or just taking care of ourself and then on the wedding day we're like, oh, we made it. Let's be nice to each other and put on a good show. And, you know, it's. And it's empty and yeah, I don't know. Yeah. So it, it matters in the way that we treat each other, especially under stress. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And what about this sort of just popped into my mind. So let me know. Yeah, but I think that there's a lot of instances on wedding days where. Yeah, absolutely. You know, both people in the couple can be stressed at the same time, right? Like, you know, maybe the weather is really bad and they're, like, starting to become stressed about, like, where the ceremony is going to be or the timelines behind or, you know, things that. Get them both at the same time. Yeah. What would you say to that? I mean, I think 1 thing for us was we knew, like, at the end of the day, we're going to be married, like, and we're going to, we're going to allow ourselves to flow. Like, we can't control everything. There are some things that we know we can't control. There are other things we know that we can't and we're going to, at the end of the day, we just want to be married. That's the most important thing. For an aspect of it, but yeah, we kept calling ourselves the easy breezy brides. Easy breezy brides, that's like a mantra. When one of us would be grumpy pants, we'd be like, hey, let's be easy breezy. Yeah. But I think that is part of it is knowing like, Some things mattered more to ash was more stressful and other things to me. And so knowing, like, how, what do I know about my partner that could care for that anxiousness and not say, hey, it's going to be fine. Don't worry about it, which would not reach her at all. She would that would make her feel not very understood. Right? But knowing like, Hey, if the weather's bad, or if she's where the photographer is not going to show up in time or, or whatever, there's a way that I feel like I could care for that and respond to her specifically. That would have been soothing comforting that and also knowing like we get access to each other. At all times. So if at any point throughout the day, even though we want, ideally we want to get ready separately and not see each other until the ceremony, we didn't do a first look for our wedding, but that was our choice. But even though we wanted to get ready separately you know, there's this, I knew that if I needed to reach Dawn that I could like, if, if all hell broke loose and I was losing it and I was an anxious mess, I knew I could reach her. And we had also written each other letters the day of, so, we got to exchange those, which brought a sense of relief to me moving through the day as we were getting ready, it felt like you were caring for me, even while you weren't physically there. Yeah. Yeah, and she had people checking on me online. Oh, yeah, I feel like she would send her brothers or, you know, whoever to go check on Ash. She's, yeah, she's doing, I do the same for her. Yeah, so, yeah, in my world, nothing matters. No event, no, nothing more than. Ash feeling protected and and safe and that I have her back no matter what, like, no, 1 is going to advocate or protect her chauffeur more than more than me. And I'm going to get excellent at that. So, and we offer that to each other, that's something that that we really is really important to us. Yeah. Yeah, I think having that, like, really buoyed us throughout the day, you know, throughout the wedding day where we knew we had each other's back. Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Oh, my goodness, keep making me tear up. So beautiful, but I mean, it sounds like that ties really well into what you were saying of, like, you also have to be practicing ahead of time, knowing that you have each other and knowing that, you know, Almost like there's, there's no scarcity in terms of like you showing up for each other or being in each other's presence. Like having that practice of like, knowing they're there too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And 1 thing I think we experienced just going through, like, as a queer couple roles is a really thing that's undefined. As like a header presenting couple, there's some, Almost expectations that you see culturally. And so for, for queer couples and for us, we entered into the planning of the wedding as like, Hey, what, what matters to you? And what do you feel like you want to do here? As the last thing that we wanted was to feel like one person was over functioning in the work, in planning it, or that it mattered more to them than the other. And so we were able to sit down and be like, what, You're really good at like seeing a vision and putting it together. I, I can do this other piece. Does that work for you? And like finding ways to do it together and checking in, Hey, is this still working for you with what we agreed to? Yeah. That was a big thing. Yeah. It was really representative. I'm just like coming up right now, but like we got to co create this really beautiful wedding that we got to make ours, you know, and. We got to break whatever traditions or norms that may have been expected, you know, and, and do what we wanted. And that's what we do for our relationship to, you know, like we co create the relationship that we want. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think that's, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. That's brilliant. Yeah, are we answering your questions? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is great. And, and yeah, I, I totally agree. I think that is something, you know, that's kind of also a silver lining about queer weddings is that you're right. Like, there isn't like, there isn't a lot, like people sort of see them as Untraditional already, so it like lends itself well to couples and sort of be able to be like, okay, we're not doing this, but we are going to do this. And I think to just kind of going back to, like. The both being stressed at the same time, I have heard, like, couples say that they will sort of have, like, a little. Like something that they might say to each other, whether it's when they're both stressed, or maybe it's like, if they're in the middle of an argument like, I know I have a, a couple that if they were both starting to feel it, they would just like, look at each other and say, we're a team. Yeah, and that sort of, so. Yeah, yeah. We, things like that. We, yeah, the, we're a team or we remind each other a lot, like just, I mean, like day to day stuff where it's like, Hey, we're going to get through this. Like, it's okay. You know, this might feel really tough right now, but you and I, we've made it through so many things before. We're going to get through this too. We have a really good track record or yeah, it's, it's you and me and we're a team here and. Well, it's not. Let's not turn on each other. Yeah. Yeah. We remind each other of that pretty back to the, we, the couple. Yes. But I, I think that this is a really important skill for couples is noticing those moments when your partner or you are starting to kind of dysregulate, feel anxious, shut down. Right. When that happens, we're going to attune to it and care for it. We're not going to bypass it. I'm not going to just be like, hey, let's just get through this and then and then we can connect and talk about it. It's like, no, this matters when and if we can slow down and care for each other, we're We can move through this better version, you know, weddings bring up a lot of scary things, you know, I mean, shoot, even if you're not queer weddings, bring up a lot of scary things, but when you throw the queer experience on top of that, there are a lot of threats that lie lie around the corner that, that pop up that we want to be able to care for really well for one another. And I think it can be easy to look at it on the surface and be like, this isn't a big deal. Like. Whatever, brush it off, you know, like, let's keep moving, but we really need to learn how to care for those moments. Well, with 1 within 1 another. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, those moments are really important. That's it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And of course, yeah, weddings are stressful, but they're not all stressful. Like there's, you know, other good things to There are many wonderful things. Yeah. Yes yeah, in the sphere of that, I'm curious, like, what are some good ways that couples can, like, encourage each other and uplift each other when they're, you know, both in the planning process and, and kind of the day of, too? We were talking about this before we hopped on here, like, how do you encourage each other? And I think one of the most important things is, like, Just in in the preparation in all the doing and all the planning is acknowledging what each other are doing. Like, God, thanks so much for hiring that. Finding those flowers. Thanks so much for taking the time to give so much detail to the invitations. I would have butchered it you know, just. Constant acknowledgement and care and that really keeps us out of automating each other like, hey, this was your task and this is what you said you'd do. So good job doing it. Like, it is. It's the day to day moment by moment care and acknowledgement of what you both are managing. Well, it's seeing each other to like, and acknowledging what your partner is doing. It's helping each other feel better. Seen in our relationship, like, well, I'm actually existing here. Yeah. And we talk with couples too, a lot about just in the day to day with relationships that we want to acknowledge these things. Thank you so much for, you know, picking up the kids or whatever it was, or taking care of the kitchen or feeding the pets or whatever it might be. We always thought we always encourage our couples to do this as well, but it feeds in into this moment too, with, with. Acknowledging it's a practice. It's a, it's part of a practice of care and, and not taking your partner for granted what they're doing. I mean, the amount of work that Ash did for our wedding. I would have had to pay someone a lot of money to do that, you know, like she created something together. We created something incredible, but the piece that ash brought, I could have never done. I didn't have the skills or the awareness. And so we really tried to just constantly. Acknowledge that with each other and same with you, like there were parts that Don covered that I'm like, I would have had to pay somebody a lot of money to cover that part for me. And so it's huge. Yeah, it's huge. Yeah. So I think, yeah, in terms of uplifting one another, like just acknowledging what the other is doing and how it's really benefiting you and impacting your life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, really acknowledging each other's strengths. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And also, you know, I think a good, like, Hey, you look really hot today, you know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hear a lot of that in the acknowledgement of care. I think it's important. To acknowledge any grief or loss that's coming up, like Ash and I had been married before. And so getting remarried was reminding us and bringing up so many memories of our previous wedding or, or relationship we had. And so really caring for that, any excitement, checking in, like, how are you doing? Or do you have space for me to share about this memory? I had with the last time I got married. That was a really big thing for us to be able to hold space for both. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I've got, I've got two previous marriages under my belt. So that was a really big thing that came up for, for me. I mean, we're speaking to now I was married. My first marriage was with a man and Jay had come out in that marriage and my second marriage with a woman. And so getting married for a third time came with, I mean, it was very loaded. There were lots of parts, I mean, beautiful parts that I loved. And then hard parts too. Yeah. Yeah. All of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm really glad that you brought that up because I think. As you mentioned, like, kind of acknowledging both is a, is a very frequent thing that I talk with couples about, you know, like, whether parents aren't coming because they don't agree or, you know, I think just in general, family and friends not coming because they don't support it is a really, really tough thing for people to have to deal with on a day like that as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Our wedding because of that was a really reparative event for us. Primarily the 1st time I went, I got married. 2 members came and 13 siblings of a big family and 2 came. So, this, this time that we, Ash and I were together and we're getting married. My parents were there. A number of my siblings were there. Her family flew in from Oklahoma to Oregon. Like it was such a beautiful reparative experience. And yeah, it was, it was bigger than just a ceremony. Just a wedding. Which was big in and of itself, but I mean, it wasn't just, it was loaded. It was really layered with importance. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And since, yeah, you two have a wealth of knowledge and wisdom and experience now being in, in your own marriage. I'm just kind of curious as we wrap up, if there's anything that you want to share or encourage the couples that are listening today with. I think, I think that we have enough research and information that the relationship needs to be the number 1 most important thing, not as like a romantic idea, but because of the quality of life that we see. When that happens and that doesn't mean to neglect work, family, kids, but really prioritize what does it look like for us as a couple coming together, building our own culture, how can we prioritize this relationship and protect it more than anything and a big part of that is finding relationships, friendships that are pro couple that are for us together and not just for me. Okay. Not just for Ash and that they are not equals. Our friends, our, our best friends for life or our family are not equals to our partner. We are the priority. We are the top of the chain here, and we will, we will protect this relationship together. Yeah. When we do well, everything else gets to benefit in our life. Because. We're taking care of this source right here. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That. And also staying curious about the other and their experience and really getting to know your partner and particularly, I would say what dysregulation or activation is like for them, that way you can get really good at catching onto those moments and showing up for them. When they really need it. Yeah. What like, when I'm thinking about like advice or wisdom, I, one thing that happens is we get into these relationships and we're coming with a history with relationship, whether it's from our parents or whoever raised us or previous partners. And once we see our partner is permanent, we, we can load all that history onto them and have an expectation. And that's that they will. You know, we're on the lookout for those things to happen to us again, and the opportunity we have together can actually heal past trauma, you know, if I'm reactive or jealous, or I shut down with sharp tone and conflict, like, all of that can be. Cared for and healed. So what I what action I say is like, hey, I didn't cause this trauma or this reaction, but I'm going to learn to care for it. I'm going to get really good at caring for these moments that I wish I had been there for, you know, and I'm not going to say that's your stuff. You need to figure it out or don't bring that here. I'm going to. Learn how to care for it and soothe it because together we can heal. Yeah. I like to think of it too. When we get into those moments where, you know, you've shared with me stories from your past and I don't know if you relate to this, but you know, when you hear stories from your partner, you know, where they've been harmed or somebody didn't show up for them, like it's almost. Like, you just want to go and protect them and care for them. I wish I could have been there. So it didn't go that way for you. And so in those moments where you're activated, like, I really tried to like, shift it to where I, it's like, this is the part that's coming up. It's historical. Right. It's the past is being superimposed on the present right now is what's actually happening. And so this is my moment. And my opportunity is your loving partner to get to show up for you and care for you in a way that you didn't get and you absolutely deserved back then. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I'm so good. Oh, my God. You two are so wise. Wow. I, I'm really glad you mentioned that part too about just like, kind of how your relationship is the priority because, you know, Obviously, I think that's so important, just like across the board. But as we're talking about weddings, I think that would be such a helpful thing for couples to remember because I feel like if they could carry that mindset into their day, like, I feel like so many couples would leave. With like such a better experience if they were like truly able to be like, hey today is about us and like Taking care of each other having fun with each other and then like I just feel like that would change the experience for so many You know instead of having to be like, well, my mom really wants us to do this, you know random thing but That stresses me out, but like, can we have a conversation then and just take it like that? Oh, yeah Yeah, the couple is top priority mom can have you know, mom can have their opinion that's okay But it doesn't mean we need to take it, you know, okay if mom's disappointed it's oh, that's one thing. Yes Permission to disappoint mom permission to disappoint dad or grandma or whoever it is You do not need to show up and make sure they're good on that specifically on that day, right? But I mean, especially not above yourself or your partner, especially that you have permission to disappoint them. They will, they can survive that. It's okay. Yeah. Wow. That is a, that is a mic drop moment right there. Yeah, we had to remind ourselves of that at times too, just with different things. Not so much. Oh yeah. That could be like podcast part two boundaries. Yeah, honestly. It's so true. I think that's something that everyone struggles with on their wedding. Cause I think. There's just like, so much of the nature of a wedding that feels people feel like they are doing it for other people, which is not always necessarily bad. But yeah, yeah. Yeah. Maybe part 2 is in our future sometime. Yeah. Yeah. Great questions. Yeah, that's really. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and thank you to both so much. If people here are listening and they're interested in, in working on their relationship with you, yeah, work with you. Yeah, yeah, we, we found the best way to support people in an intimate way is through reaching people through just social media right now. So, tick tock Instagram there's an app. There's a link in our bio to apply to work with us for a 10 week program. We're also going to be. Launching a queer couples course that the interactive course they can do together on their own self pace in the next couple of months here. So, yeah, we're really excited about that one. Yeah, we're hoping to reach. I mean, we can only reach so many people when we're working with them 1 on 1. That is just. Our passion and our love but we're hoping to reach so many other queer couples through, through this program we're about to launch. And so, yeah, yeah, it's going to be a very skill based, like, how do we communicate? How do we conflict? Well, how do we repair quickly? It's going to be very specific. Yeah. Yeah. We've had fun creating it. Oh, my gosh. That is amazing. I can't wait to see that. And I will make sure to put all of your social links in the show notes. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. That sounds great. That's awesome. Thanks Anna. Yeah. Thank you both so, so much for sharing your time and your wisdom. I know that there's a lot of couples who have already benefited so much, and, and our little corner today are gonna benefit a lot too, so thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having us on and reaching out. Absolutely. This is a great topic.