51. Accessory Posing - What is it and Why Do We All Need to Stop Doing it?

Accesory posing is something we've all likely done because it's everywhere. But what is it exactly and how can we adjust how we see and practice this?
Learn in this week's episode with Maya of Maya Lovro Photography.
https://mayalovro.com/
Maya's Instagram
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Transcript

0:41

All right, Queerly Beloved, welcome back to this week's episode. I'm super excited to have Maya Loverow Photography with me here today, and we're gonna chat about a really interesting topic that I have been struggling to put into words for a long time. Um, but before we do that, I would just love to Pass the mic over to you to have you introduce yourself, your pronouns, and any identities you want to share. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me here. Um, my name is Maya Lovro. My pronouns are they, them, and my identity is queer. It's like, I've like got a bunch of labels, but I just go with queer because at this point it's easier. Yes. I love that. Yeah. And so I'm sure people will be able to tell by the information that you are a photographer, but I would love to hear just a little bit more about what you do and yeah, anything you want to share about that. Yeah, absolutely. I'm a wedding photographer. I also do portraits and families, but mostly weddings. And I really specialize in working with clients who are doing something a little bit different for their day, whether that's blending cultures that have different traditions and trying to figure out how to make that into one ceremony reception or inventing something new from the ground up, or just like really don't like the status quo of the wedding industry and wedding history, and are just trying to do something completely unique to what fits their lives. Yes. Yeah. I love that. And I will be sure to link your, your website and Instagram in the show notes and everyone should go check out their work. Cause it's chef's kiss. Beautiful. Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing a little bit more about you. Um, And I would love to just dive right in because, um, I'm going to say it was maybe like a month or so ago that I saw this reel, um, that was featured on another account, but it was, it was your content, um, that was talking about this idea of accessory posing. And I'm going to let you kind of chat about it more, but it's something that I feel like So important and something that I feel like both folks that identify as queer vendors and those who don't like it happens across the board. And I think it's a really, really important topic. So, um, can you just start by kind of defining it for us? Yeah, absolutely. So accessory posing is a word that I made up because I kept seeing this phenomena in wedding photography for years and years and it like bothered me in the subtle and then less subtle ways over time and I was like, I don't think there's like a word for this and I kept trying to talk to people about it and it's really actually hard to talk to somebody about something that doesn't have a name. So I just started calling it accessory posing because it fits and people kind of get what I'm talking about pretty quickly. But what accessory posing is, is whenever. You see, in wedding photos, um, it's this like, pervasive, I don't want to say trend because it's not a trend. It's more like a posing style that exists where, um, in a couple, one partner is used as a visual accessory to the other. And typically that partner that's being used as a visual accessory is a groom or someone who's masculine and they're being used to highlight a bride. Um, it's just, it, once you start looking for it, you will see it absolutely everywhere. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Um, I, it has bothered me to no end for so long too. Um, and like, I'm also saying that as someone who like very early in my career probably did it too. So like, you know, I think it's, it's very easy to like see it and then you're like, Oh, I saw something like this. So like already create it. Um, But we also don't want to like shame anyone, we're just here to, to learn and to talk about it. So, um, yeah, could you give some, like, obviously this is an audio podcast, um, but like as best as you can kind of give us like a visual of like how that might show up in like photos or videos on a wedding day. Yeah, absolutely. And if you do want to see a visual component, um, Love Inc. actually helped me go in depth with a very thorough article that I took some example photos for, so I'll make sure you get the link to that to put in the show notes to really like see these visual examples. Um, but what it is, is oftentimes you'll just see like a groom used as this like Accessory where either his face is completely blocked, his identity is obscured, he's there in essence, but he's not there in the photo to be honored like on his wedding day, he's like, his head's tucked behind, or he's standing 10 feet back, or like there's flowers blocking his face, or he's like, like, there's a groom there to give context that it's a wedding, but not there to actually like, You know, celebrate his own day. Yes. Yeah. Oh gosh, I can, I can see it very clearly in my mind. Um, from, from your perspective, why do you think that this happens and like, why is it so prevalent? So this is a really nuanced topic and I actually wrote, um, when I was writing that piece about it, I had this very long, like, almost essay length explanation to this particular point. Yeah. Um, but to summarize, I think it happens because of a mix of various factors that all sort of relate back to like the sexism that exists in the wedding industry and in culture. I'm also saying this all through a very like American lens, just to be clear. I do not know how this exists or doesn't exist in other parts of the world. I live in Pennsylvania. I work in the American wedding industry, so everything is through that lens specifically. Yes. Um, but I think it has to do a lot with this, like, bride worship that we have on wedding days a lot of times, where it's like, um, brides kind of, like, Are celebrated like this is like one of the life milestones that women are allowed to have like you're allowed to do things like get Married and then have babies so you should be super super celebrated on this day and you know, like it's almost like it's weird because it like isn't fair to grooms in the photo. Like, they're the ones that get a race, but they're also the ones that, like, get the social power out of it. So it's, like, this very odd counterbalance sort of situation. Um, I also think a major contributing factor is the fact that men are socially raised to kind of not value themselves in an associated way. And also not value themselves in like a self confidence, like put yourself forward way for something that's not inherently masculine. And wedding days tend to be very femininely styled. And so it's like you have this, the soft objects like flowers and lace and these elements. And I think men don't know how to like feel comfortable being very proud of being in that space. And so it's a mix of. being uncomfortable in front of the camera for various reasons, and then also photographers wanting to really, really focus on A bride and then a bride wanting to really, really glow and shine so it's, it's like a combination of things that may or may not be bad in some way, all culminating in this weird phenomena. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Oh my gosh. I hope I explained that okay. It's much clearer in the writing. Yes. No, absolutely. I can totally link link that article, but I was going to say, you're fantastic with words. Like, I feel like everything you just said, I'm like having all these different, like, wow, there's just so much there. That's like, very true and very unfortunate. Um, yeah, I, I fully agree. Um, I think something that just popped in my head too, is like how much I think, obviously we're kind of talking about like posing and how that. Can happen in like photo and video and stuff, but I feel like there's an aspect of this that totally bleeds into like the wedding day as a whole, right? That it's like, absolutely. Um, so yeah, how do you kind of see that in like wedding days as a whole? Well, I mean, think about like, Photography coverage whenever you have like couples getting ready in separate spaces. It's always defaulted to the primary shooter is with the bride where the secondary photographer is with the groom. And it's like, not that secondary photographers are like lower skilled or anything, but they often aren't like the main person in that photography duo. And it's like, Yeah, the groom gets the leftovers. The groom always gets the leftovers. Cause the day is about the bride primarily. And you see it again and again. And even like, I think of venues when there's a getting ready suite and there's just one getting ready suite and it's beautiful and gorgeous and air conditioned and like, has this like lighted bar so you can do your makeup and then like the groom's in like a storm shelter out back. I've actually seen that happen for the record. Like an actual literal storm shelter. Good, good, good, good. Oh, gosh. Yeah. And I think that it almost becomes like a whole mindset then too, that that's something that I run into with a lot of other vendors who, whether or not they're like interested in working with queer couples or, or what have you, I feel like I've had so many conversations with other vendors or guests who are, Like truly bamboozled if either a there is no bride like for example if there's two groom or you know non binary folks getting married or like if there's two brides, then they're like Well, who am I supposed to talk to more like who's calling the shots like exactly? It's so pervasive and yeah, it's just kind of wild. Like think of how many vendors, you know, who would not blink an eye at a bride being the only one on a call, like a planning call, but would be so uncomfortable if like a groom was the only one on the planning call. Yeah. Yes. That, that is very true. Um, yeah, but I think it's such an interesting point that you made too, of like, it is such an interesting thing to discuss when it's like, I would say we still live in a very, like, male centered world, in a patriarchal world. Um, and I, yeah, I guess also in America specifically. Yeah, this is all like a very American conversation. I would be so curious how this plays out in other cultures, like wedding wise, but I just don't work in those industries. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. If anyone has any thoughts, feel free to, to send us a DM. But, it is kind of sad, like, when you put those things side by side, like. Okay, but then yes, this is like one of the few opportunities that like, women in our society get to like, have the spotlight and like, feel good and feel important. So, oh my gosh, yeah, there's just so many. Yeah, there's like layers, like every time you peel something back on this, you're like, this is unfair, but like to everybody and for totally different reasons, like nobody is winning here. Yeah, and I know that in the, um, the reel that. I saw you kind of talk about this topic. You said that this accessory posing was boring and unfair. Can you tell me a little bit about that word choice? Yeah, absolutely. And I'm going to start this with a caveat that I'll get into later, but I don't totally avoid accessory posing in my own work. So I do use it sometimes and I'll get, I'll get into that, but I find accessory posing to be a very boring type of, um, posing and wedding photography, just because it is. It's like very uncreative if to me it reads like I was taught to do this by the person who taught me how to do wedding photos or I absorbed this by watching other wedding photographers and I never really thought about it and I never really adjusted it so I'm just going to do it because it's what has always been done it's like someone did it once and we just keep doing it and I feel like that's why I want to talk about it because I I feel like as soon as you bring it up to someone they're like oh yeah wait that's like why am I doing this like there I could be more creative here um And what's unfair about it is just like, whenever you have a wedding, it is two or more people celebrating their love together. And I feel like they should be equally honored. It is both of their day. And so it's incredibly weird when you're like, scrolling through a Finnish wedding gallery, and you get like, third, halfway through, and you're like, Is there a groom here? Like, is there another person? Like, is this person marrying themselves? Like, I've only seen one person. Um, so it's just like, I feel like, Partners should be equally represented in their wedding photos, and that's where I feel accessory posing is unfair when it's used in excess and as the only type of posing. Yeah, yeah, that's so true. And I think an interesting thing to, you know, not to just keep adding more layers, but an interesting thing to mention too is that while I do think, you know, that maybe this primarily happens with more like straight heteronormative couples. Like this definitely happens in queer couples too. And like speaking from my own experience, um, so my partner and I recently got engaged and we did our engagement photos over the summer. Thank you. Um, and yeah, in the event that the person who took our photos is listening, this is like no shade to them, but I did get our gallery back and My partner is very much so mask. Um, Even though she uses she her pronouns and I saw that happening in our photos like it was very much like and it was also wild too because we literally wore the exact same outfits like we wore white t shirts and blue jeans like We just kind of were boring like that. But like, even in that event, it was like, I had long hair. I'm more femme presenting. And so half of our gallery was like photos of me looking into the camera and like her facing the other way or whatever. And I was like, this is literally wild. Cause. We're a lesbian couple and I still see how, how that happens too. I'm so sorry that happened to you. That's actually like kind of how I first started like coming up for a phrase for this though. Was I, it was just like not wedding photos. It was like random, just portraits, like just photos. For funsies couples photos that me and my partner had done once where this was like really heavily prominent and I was like Oh, that's wildly uncomfortable And that's when I started like noticing it in everyone's work all the time everywhere But you are totally right like it absolutely happens and I think that's another like you were mentioning before where like Photographers who aren't queer friendly in their work don't know what to do with queer couples. Sometimes they're like, what do you mean? There's not a boy and a girl. I don't know how to make this happen so they'll just start like It's super imposing these like posing scripts that are super gendered and uh accessory based onto everybody whether or not it fits them and then it starts to get really nonsensical and then you can start to notice like tension in like shoulders and everything because people just aren't comfortable in the positions they're in and it kind of just spirals downwards into this uh mess of a gallery by the end. As we slowly maybe transition into chatting about like ways that we can start changing this in our businesses and things like that. Um, I know that you have already talked about it in the podcast and I believe talked about it a little bit in the real too, about how like, there are ways for this to exist where it's not necessarily a bad thing. Cause I'm even thinking about how, sometimes when I work with a couple where one of them. Is wearing a dress and one of them is wearing a suit. Like there are moments where it's just genuinely like, okay, well, like the wind's blowing and like, she's got this cool train and like, let's give her this moment. Like, right. I think there are still ways to like highlight people of the couple. Um, so it is not inherently bad. It just. I think, like you said, it should be equal, equal for both of them. Is that kind of what you were saying? Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. So that's kind of what I strive to do in my work is I don't cut out accessory posing entirely because there are moments where like a more complicated outfit needs a sort of pose that's going to show it off in a way or like you might have You know, 20 photos. I'm making this number up. This is not how my photos are in anything. Like 20 photos of someone in a complicated dress where you may have like 10 that cover the same individual in solos in a suit just because dresses inherently have more elements than need close up detail work than suits do often. So things will kind of be unbalanced just by the outfit choices and also the camera comfortability. Of the couple you're working with sometimes people really don't feel super comfortable So I would like to get like a good classic shot with them But like i'm not going to keep pushing them or where their partner might be like, yeah Take a billion photos of me. I'll do this all day Um, but what I really strive to do is if i'm using an accessory pose for some reason I'm going to use the same exact accessory pose in the opposite way almost immediately after. So if I'm doing someone tucking their head behind their partner's face for a kiss on the ear, like cheek, temple area, I'm going to immediately turn around and be like, all right, now I'll do it to them. Like, so if you're not comfortable doing a pose the other way, then I would just like, consider if you're using that pose for a very good reason or not. There's also like, really minor adjustments you can make to fix like, a lot of the super common ones, like, That one I was just talking about where like someone tucks their head behind their partner's face It's always like, you know Like whisper something in their ear and then they their partner turns and it just blocks their face entirely You can do a really similarly emotionally impactful image By just having them pull their face out a little bit like have them bring their bodies close together Have them make a V shape like a pair of migrating birds with their shoulders, but don't have them stick their face behind their partner's face. Like you can just have them get close together, nuzzle their cheekbones. It's very similar stylized, like maybe six inches of different movement and you can see both of their faces. Yeah. Wow, that's beautiful. I hope everyone has a paper and pen and can write that down for it's always so weird talking about such a visual things because I'm like, I know exactly what I'm talking about. But like, I also stare at photos every day. All all day. Right? Yes, exactly. Yeah. And, um, yeah, that reminds me of something similar that that I try to do where, like, this is By no means a groundbreaking pose, but like, I'll have one couple, like they'll link arms and one couple's facing me. And then one couple has like their back towards me. So it's kind of like, and then I'll have them flip flop. So it's like a way to see like the front and back of both their outfits or like the front and back of both their hairs or, you know, whatever it might be. So yeah, there's so many options. Um, Like it's just mixing up and adding, taking five seconds to do the same thing the other way. And you'll just suddenly have like, Way more universal posing that's like super fun for everybody involved. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And I think something you just said kind of inspired me to, um, you had kind of mentioned that some of it can be like based off of what folks are wearing. And so I think that that might even be a cool way for photographers, videographers, other vendors to kind of give them, you know, Some time to like mentally prep is if you have a spot, like on your questionnaire or in your conversations with a couples being able to be like, Hey, you don't have to like, gimme the, you know, show me a photo if you don't wanna share it yet. But like, can you loosely describe what you're wearing so that I can sort of, you know, be aware of like, okay. Yeah. It seems like one of you might have a more detailed outfit than the other, or maybe you both have'em. And um,'cause I think that, that you bring up such a good point that some people do. Like if there's two suits or two dresses or whatever other combo people are like, oh my gosh, this is so overwhelming I've seen so many times where photographers that don't work often with queer couples will have like a couple that's wearing two suits and they'll take like three photos and they'll be like I don't know what else to do here because they're just like all their poses are dress based Or the opposite of that they'll have like a couple wearing two dresses and they'll like go Totally blow through their portrait time and be like, I have too many things to do because they're trying to do every single photo they always do, and they don't know how to combine it at all, so it's like, super stressful and I feel, I feel really bad, like I don't want anyone to be in that position, so like, You know, I would like us all to work on this so everybody can be more comfortable and chill. Yes. Yeah. Couldn't have said it better. Everyone needs to be more comfortable and chill. That's like my goal in life. That's like all I want out of the wedding industry is everyone to be more comfortable and like relax about pen points. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Um, so yeah, in addition to, uh, Um, maybe asking folks about their, their outfits, um, do you have any tips for folks that they can start, you know, changing their posing or shifting their mindset? Anything like that? Yeah, absolutely. So my biggest tip is if you notice that you're doing this a lot in your work, grab some friends, like outside of a wedding day, give yourself a time period that's not timed. Give yourself just some time to play with Models, you know, buy them lunch, pay them money, do whatever you need to, um, but just like spend some time really thinking about your posing and the poses you do, put them in your regular pose, audit your regular poses, try some new ones, just really like play around with it outside of a wedding day so that you can go to your next wedding day with a better tool sets to kind of it. Try things and do that a little bit at the next wedding day and a little bit more at the next one. And after a few, you'll realize you have a much more updated posing repertoire to pull from. So that's like the biggest tip is just like practice outside of the wedding day, bring it into your work. Yes. Yeah. And I would love to say too that think that this is a really important time for, for folks who are wanting to change or like get better at this. Like this is a great time to like highlight and elevate like queer artists and queer vendors, um, to kind of look at their work, obviously because, you know, I would say like you and I are out here like trying to do the work, but also because like we have good examples where I feel like. Pinterest and like other kind of big resources like that. So don't, right. Right. So definitely I would encourage you to like, try to look at what existing queer vendors are already doing. Yes. Like, especially photographers who are queer themselves. Like, please look at our work. Like we, we're not perfect. We, we still make mistakes too. Especially like, I remember early in my career, I definitely did some of the more. Like accessory based poses. Cause that's like what I was seeing. Like I started photographing in Western Pennsylvania. We're like 10 years behind visually anyways, no shade on Western PA, but also a little shade, like healthy amount. Um, but yeah, definitely like look at. queer photographers work, especially of queer couples, like, see how we pose and work with people of a wild, like, variety of body types and, uh, cultural backgrounds and heights and sizes and identities, like, all of this, this is, like, one of those things where I'm, like, this is, like, a little nuanced slice of a very large pie, but, um, there's, this conversation can be expanded upon if you bring in, like, a Mobility differences and like body size differences and things like that too. So that's, we're not even touching on that. Oh gosh. Yeah. We have to start a whole series. There's a lot of biases in posing and that's kind of where this all comes from. And this is like one very specific one that I just would like people to work on. Cause it's a super easy one to fix. And I think just kind of keeps historically repeating itself because it's what we're comfortable with. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think something that just popped into my mind too is that, um, I think that those who listen to the podcast are maybe a good mix of like queer folks themselves and then also like allies and folks interested in, um, kind of changing their practices. I feel like just on that note, I would like to say like, this applies across the board. Like, I know we've talked about all kinds of couples, but like, if you're listening and you're like, Oh, but I primarily work with like straight couples who do kind of present that way. Like, great. Like you should be doing this. And like, when you do that, it benefits. Like the wedding industry as a whole. Do you, do you agree? Oh my gosh, absolutely. So that's actually like one of my favorite benefits from like adding this to my posing repertoire and really auditing my own posing work is when I am working with straight couples, like giving a groom time to shine and like watching his like, Self confidence just like bubble up like because we've all seen it We've all seen like grooms like really like dejected and like they're there and they're happy because like they love their wife And they want to be there but like they're not excited for the photos They're like really dreading like being like having any attention on them. And then like you give them a little bit of like The same treatment that you give their wife and they're suddenly like oh wait Like this is my day too. Like I get to celebrate too and it just it makes me feel really sad But then it also makes me feel really happy And some of the photos that i've had my clients Um, my straight clients actually say like where their absolute favorites were ones where I put a more masculine partner into like a more feminine traditional pose in like a couple's photo and they're like, wow, like we would have never thought of this, but like, it's so soft and like really showed off like a side of us that, you know, is there, but it's really hard to capture in photographs because it's not like a typical pose. I'm gonna cry. That's so beautiful. I have like one in my head right now from an engagement session I did like years ago so it was this photo where they both had starbucks They were both like cuddled up together under these winter blankets It was super cute and it was just like a very vulnerable pose Like there wasn't anything super like edgy or bold about it It was just cuddly and soft and comfy and like they both just really Loved it, and I loved it, and I just, it's, I don't know if I'm explaining this well, because I'm again trying to talk about a visual thing, but it was just like, let, let men be soft. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That is so beautiful. I would, if you feel comfortable sending me that, I would love to see it. Yeah, I'll go dig that one out of my archives. That was like an early one, but I will pull it out of somewhere. Okay. Awesome. Um, I think kind of the last thing I'd love to touch on is something that I've heard you say a few times, which is like, Auditing your own work. Um, I think that is really really important and I think we all need to do it but I feel like it can also be kind of tough to like do it to yourself where like It could either be hard to spot things that you're doing or it could be easy to like Beat yourself up. Like I feel like it's just kind of hard to Have any like tips for that when people are kind of trying to audit for this? Yeah, absolutely. So the biggest tip would be like have some queer friends and have them help you but also like Compensate people if you're not like if it's not like an actual friend thing I'm a really really lucky in that I have like this little pod of Photographers and we all like know each other and love each other and like support each other So when we have things like this where we're like, hey Like I need someone to look at my work and tell me this Am I doing this wrong? Am I doing this wrong? Like, technically, or like something abstract like this, we have like people that'll pounce on it and be like, absolutely, like, I'll look through this with a fresh eye. Um, that kind of thing. So if you have photographer friends, like, Have them, enlist them to help, too. Trade galleries, like, make it so you look at each other's and look for things like this, or if they have something they're working on. But definitely, like, use that support circle, use that friend circle, use that network. Um, but if you are doing it yourself, which I think we all should do ourselves as well, the biggest thing is don't beat yourself up. That's just a waste of time, like, objectively, like, to be like, oh no, like, I'm doing this. I feel really bad about it. Feel bad for a minute. And then fix it. Like that's the best way to go about it. Like I've made mistakes. I catch myself doing things sometimes. Um, sometimes I'll fall into a pattern. I'll be on a wedding day and I'm like, Ooh, that was really heteronormative and not to my like personal values. And then I'll be like, all right, deep breath. How can we fix it? We have this many hours left in the day. Like I have this chance for portraits. Like, just like breathe, feel the feeling move on. It's the best thing I get, which is hard to do. Like, especially if you've got like. You know, like, uh, Catholic guilt, kind of, things built in, which I feel like a lot of America has that to struggle with in some way, or some equivalent, um, some sort of like religious guilt equivalent, but, yeah, so don't beat yourself up, do rely on your network, rely on your friends. And just do it all the time like it doesn't have to be this big thing, you know It's be like, all right. I'm sitting down. I'm blocking time off Like no just the next time you're like looking through your portfolio be like, all right Let's do a quick count of these I do the same thing when I look through my portfolio I'm like how many of these are styled shoots how many are real so I can make sure that the like balance is fair So it's just like when you're putting portfolio things up do another count see how many of these are in Outdoor venues how many are indoor like am I showing like a good variety? How many of these are accessory poses? How many of these are not? Mm hmm Yeah. Wow. So wise. So wise. I really do not feel particularly wise. I just have a lot of opinions and like to talk about them. Yes. No, it's all been so fantastic. And I feel like everyone hopefully is able to learn so much from this. Um, And yeah, it kind of just seems like, in conclusion, like, this is something that we're trying to change, um, it doesn't have to be completely eradicated, it just needs to be, like, Equalized in a sense, honestly, I'll just be happy if everyone just notices it exists. Like, that is a great 1st step. Like, if everyone can just like, collectively be like, oh, yeah, we are doing this. Oh, my didn't realize it, but we are. Yes, yeah, absolutely. And yeah, there's no, there's no shame in the game unless, unless you're like, ah. This is dumb. I'm not going to change them. Then there's some, yeah, then there's shame, but yeah, no, absolutely. I, yeah, I just want to echo what you said of like practice, like take it one step at a time. Definitely practice outside of a real shoot. Like. Try to make it fun too because it should be fun. It is fun. It's also like something I've found like since I've started really being aware of accessory posing is when you take the rule book away, there is so much creativity like things you didn't realize you could do like ways that you can. It's not like there's not a finite amount of ways that you can pose people together, their personalities, the way they interact, their comfortability with the camera, like everything can, you can create unique poses for every single couple you work with. Yeah. Mm hmm. Big snaps. Oh, awesome. Maya, thank you so much for sharing your opinions, your thoughts, your wisdom. This has been absolutely incredible. Thank you for having me. This was really fun to talk about. I'm excited to, like, be here and also, like, get this message out to more people. I hope this, like, resonates with people. I feel like some people are gonna listen to this and be like, oh my god, thank you. Like, someone's finally saying this and then more people are gonna be like, oh my gosh, I never noticed that. But, like, good point. Yes. Yeah. I totally agree. And I'm here for both of those reactions. Like, I love you all. Thank you for listening to this. Yes. Is there anything else? You want to share with the crowd before we sign off? Um, I, I've got like a million things, so I will just like leave it with something simple, which is just like, happy holidays to everybody. Um, please rest over the winter. Those of us in the wedding industry, get some sleep. Um, And thank you so much for having me here. I will make sure you get that link. If you'd like to read more about accessory posing in a much less stream of consciousness, much more, I actually thought about this and then edited my writing. Um, please check out my article that I did on Love Inc. Um, we will put the link in the show notes. That feels weird to say. I've always wanted to say that. No, I'm excited. I didn't know that you wrote an article, so I'm very excited to read it. And um, yes, I will link your Instagram and your website as well so people can check you out. And yeah, oh yeah, if you're looking for like a super colorful wedding photographer and like my, what I say and how I am, please reach out to me because I would love to photograph your wedding. I always forget that like I'm doing this and also should plug myself. Yes. Yeah, absolutely.