54. Queer Love Stories: Travis and James Artwork

Queerly Beloved

This podcast is designed for queer couples who are looking for a safe space to explore the possibilities for their wedding or elopement. It’s also meant to help educate and inform allies and wedding vendors on ways they can create safe and inclusive spaces for the queer folks in their lives.. Simply put, this podcast is here to unite both queer couples and the ally community to help change the wedding industry for the better!

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Queerly Beloved

54. Queer Love Stories: Travis and James

January 15, 2025 • Anna Treimer • Episode 54

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Back with another absolutely heart-warming (yet filled with moments of laughter and comedy) queer love story! This week I chat with Travis and James, an absolutely amazing couple whom I photographed their small wedding in August of 2024. T + J share themes of love, queer wedding planning tips in rural areas, and sharing about what it's like to navigate family not coming to your wedding. Give it a listen and go check out their wedding gallery to put a visual to all the words <3
https://gallery.wildlyconnectedphotography.com/travisandjamesgetmarried/

The intro and all instrumentals were written, sung and recorded by @JaynaDavisMusic

Queerly Beloved, I'm so glad you joined!
Please keep the community going by checking me out on instagram @wildlyconnectedphoto and come say hi! I'd love to hear from you! :)

0:41

Okay, Curly Beloved, welcome back to this week's episode. I'm super excited to have this amazing couple with me here today. Um, I photographed their wedding back in August and it was probably one of the most beautiful days I've ever seen and they are just chef's kiss the absolute best. So without further ado, would you two introduce yourselves, your pronouns, and any identities you want to share? Sure. Hi, my name is Travis. My pronouns are he, him. Um, I was born in Brazil. I was adopted as an infant, and I grew up in rural northern Minnesota, and I'm married to James. And I am James. Uh, my pronouns are he, him as well. Uh, also from Minnesota. Um, although we've moved a lot, uh, also from Minnesota, um, kind of born and raised in, in the southern suburbs, uh, of the state and, um, yeah, I guess, I guess that that's me. Yeah, awesome. Well, I mean, spoiler alert. You guys are married before we jump into that. Um, I was curious if, if both of you could kind of share as much or as little as you want, just kind of about your each respective coming out journeys. Yeah, sure. So my coming out journey was deeply intertwined with my identity as a former Baptist. Growing up, I wrestled, um, wrestled with the message I was receiving about who I should be versus who I truly was. Moving to Minneapolis and going to a private Christian college really was a dark time for me because I wanted to serve the God that I believe was full of love. But I knew I needed to be true to myself. And I was being taught, and my faith didn't align at that time. I ended up coming out to my mother three times. Once in high school, when she found my copy of Queer As Folk under my bed. She watched two episodes, and I was absolutely mortified. Once in college when I was attending, um, an ex gay conversion group, and then the third time, um, to both my parents when I had been asked to leave that private Christian college, and I, um, had gotten my first, um, apartment to loan. Um, it was met with a little shock, which I always found interesting, because my mother had already known, um, but we moved, um, past that and then started to heal from there. And now we are kind of in a place where they love James as my partner. Um, they still struggle with it. On a face, um, side of it, but we are all family. So it's beautiful. Yeah. I'm really grateful to have, I think, as good of a relationship as I could possibly ever hope for with his parents and with his family. Um, obviously I know where they stand religiously. And with their belief system, and it's really difficult for them to acknowledge even our relationship and conversation or, uh, you know, definitely our marriage in particular, um, is a tricky one because, you know, the way that they view marriage is very much as a sacrament tied to the religion. Um, so it is, you know. A little bit more even of a pinpoint even beyond us just being in a relationship. Although I think that whether they acknowledge it outright or not, they're both there. Everyone is aware like everyone at this point. They know that we're married. They know that we're in a relationship and they love me and welcome me into their home into Thanksgiving gatherings and those other thing kind of moments as well. Um, but I don't think that, you know, I don't know that they're going to get to a place, at least not anytime soon. I don't want to, I don't want to put it on them and say never, um, but I think it would be very challenging for them to get to a place where they acknowledge our marriage. Um, but acknowledging that Travis loves me, that I love him, um, that I make him happy and that I'm a good person. I think that, you know, that that was something that I don't think that. Maybe we expected, um, but maybe not. Maybe it's something that they didn't expect was to be able to see me as a good person. Um, but they do. Uh, and, and so I think that that getting to that place alone is, is reward enough. And as, as much as I could ever ask for, I'm very, very grateful for that. Um, as far as me, um, my coming out story, I think is not as intense. I guess I w I would say it's not, I, I definitely was raised in a conservative community. It was a conservative, you know. Christian suburb. Uh, and so and I was raised, you know, in a catholic church, went to catholic school. My family was catholic. Um, so there were those challenges, of course, that come along with all of those things. Um, and really coming to that recognition of, of loving that part of me did take some time, I think, particularly with my mom and dad. They've always Honestly, come from a place of love. Uh, even when I was little, you know, they recognized that my interests were different. They, they, they, they supported me when I wanted to be a theater kid and a choir kid and a performing artist. They, they bought me a Barbie doll, right? Stereotype, but it's there it is. If I wanted a Barbie, they got me a Barbie. Um, so they, they did support me through that. The whole coming out process, you know, I, I had my, my boyfriends were secret boyfriends for quite a long time where that wasn't something that I could share with them or felt like I could share with them and, and in that kind of realizing process of, oh, I am gay, um, kind of over my high school years, that was a struggle for them. That was definitely a challenge. They just, they didn't want that for me is kind of where the place that they were coming from. They felt it was going to make my life harder and that it was going to put me, you know, add challenges to my life and add risk to my life. And you know what, some of that is true, but, um, I think all for the better. Right. And I think that, um, as queer people, we can all acknowledge that, you know, even though there are all those challenges that come with being. Different than everybody else. Um, they really do turn into strengths. And I, I think that they gave me enough space to allow that to be true and not for it to be a burden. And they've really come around. Um, we are now at a completely opposite end of the spectrum of any type of challenge. We are loving, welcoming family. Um, and, and they, they, they couldn't be more wonderful. Absolutely. My mom and dad and my, my, my brothers and sisters, all of my family are just, um, loving, welcoming, accepting. Wonderful people. And it's really wonderful. Yeah, I like to think I had a little part of that. Just, you know, by having that be the, you know, the thing that popped up, it helped, helped everyone to ask some questions about what is important. And I think that, you know, love and family came down to being the most important. And so that hopefully changed some minds, opinions and got us to where we are now. Yeah, yeah, it's really beautiful. And yes, I, I loved talking to your parents at the wedding too. They were so, they were so fun. And your mom was out there busting a move at some point in the wedding. They absolutely will do that. They will swing dance any opportunity that they are given to show off those skills. At some point in time they took lessons together. Um, and they do, they do love to bust a move on the dance floor if given the opportunity. And the photos that you captured at that moment were so few. Oh my gosh, we just, we treasure them. We actually got a photo album. Um, not to teach your horn too much, but we definitely will because it was a big important part of our wedding. Um, and one of the big priorities for us was photography. So we got a photo album. Of a bunch of their favorite pictures, um, that they printed off for us. And so, um, we got that for as one of our Christmas gifts this year. It was really lovely. So it sits on our console table now, like right by our sofa as people come in, uh, to our apartment. Yeah. And now that we've recently moved into kind of our, you know, our more permanent home here in Chicago, we are fingers crossed. We're gonna order some more too, because we want to get some on our walls and in the office. So we're excited to get that as well. We want to get some more prints. So we're very excited. We're very, very happy. Yeah. Oh my gosh, yay. I love to hear that. Well, if you ever want to, like, show me them hanging up, like, I don't know, I think it's just so interesting and fun to see which ones, like, you guys love and where you put them and everything. So, yeah, I'd love to hear that. Before we like jump fully into your relationship, which I'm super excited about, thank you so much for sharing about your, your coming out. It sounds like there was, you know, good parts and bad parts in both and, and ultimately you're, you're better for it. But, I'm curious, it sounds like There's a little bit of a common theme of kind of having that rough spot and then, um, obviously, I know maybe your parents are in different places now, but I'm curious just like how much you had to kind of wrestle with that to get to the point you're at now. And is it ever still hard? I can jump in on this one. Um, I, I mean, I was pretty comfortable with myself pretty early on. Um, I mean, I, I founded like the Gay Straight Alliance at my high school. I think that was my like sophomore or junior year. Um, and so I was pretty aware, right? Um, I wasn't necessarily sharing everything with my family, but I was pretty aware and pretty comfortable early on. So that, that little bit of like, yeah. My family, you know, getting, getting comfortable with the idea, you know, there were, there were definitely ups and downs with that, um, but I've been pretty comfortable from, from the beginning, like, I would say for me, anyway. Yeah. For me, I think it was a little bit harder. I think that the notion of, you know, in the queer community, we use the term chosen family a lot. And I think that with me being adopted, the notion of chosen family was something I was very aware of from a young age. So that was something that I remember being in high school. And once I got my driver's license, and I lived about four and a half hours away from like a bigger metropolitan area, and then coming down with my friends from high school, who at the time, who my best friend was a lesbian, and we would come and we met, you know, some of our closest queer friends, and that was kind of our chosen family at the time, and then kind of being introduced to the To the bigger queer community in Minneapolis. And then kind of, you know, I was came down and I remember being like, yeah, I'm a bisexual. And like, I remember Raven being like, no honey, you're a gay boy, but whatever you need to, whatever, whatever you are, you can do, but we'll see how that turns out in the next decade or so. And she was right. And I love her for that. She's still one of my, I call her my sister. She's one of my closest and dearest friends. Um, But it, yeah, it was a lot, it was met with a lot of personal struggle, a lot of depression, a lot of, you know, um, those issues, especially during college. And, you know, I went through gay conversion therapy, which, you know, was kind of one of the more darker times in my life. But I'm grateful for all of that because, you know, it made me stronger. It truly showed me who I was and showed my character. And I do not regret any of that. Anything that I went through, I do not wish that upon anyone else. And I wish that any, anyone out there will be able to realize that you don't need that. Just listen to who you are from your inner self and trust your inner self because that is your truth. Um, but if you have to go on that journey, then go on that journey. Yeah. Yeah. Um, let's hope that soon. Conversion therapy will be totally banned across the board everywhere. Yeah, I can't imagine, but thank you again both for sharing that. Um, and I'm so glad that you guys found, found yourselves and found each other. And speaking of finding each other, let's talk about how you guys met. Because I think it's such a fun story. Yeah, I'll start on this one. I, uh, we'd kind of, um, been in the same circles. It seemed like for quite a long time. Um, we'd attended a lot of the same events. We just kind of crossed paths and were passively aware of each other. Um, and, you know, had it. Interacted at various points. Um, in time, I remember one time we were like at the same event. We had like rented like these booths right next to each other. Um, and we didn't even talk or interact. I don't think that night, but I remember us being like, right, right next to each other. Um, and there were also those moments during that time where I was with my. My ex husband, you were with somebody at the time. And so we were never necessarily both mutually available. Um, and so it was just kind of a ships passing in the night kind of thing. Uh, and then there was one instance, um, back in the day, back in the day, uh, back in the day. What an expression. But back in the day, that's when you know you've reached a certain age. When back in the day makes sense. Um, but back in the day, I was a drag performer at this one club in Minneapolis. And, uh, I, it was a Halloween show and Trav, I, I was performing this mix that just struck Travis, I guess. Yeah. How much did you tip me? I don't know. Was it 100? I think he took me a 100 bill if I'm, if I remember right. And so he really loved it. I went down to the dressing room and I was like, drinks on me everybody. Um, but it's funny cause we didn't even realize when we had started dating that I was that person. He was that person. Um, I, I think it was weird just telling a story one time of like, Oh yeah, this, I can't remember if it was me telling it or Oh yeah, one time I think it was the song. Yeah. The song came on and I was like, Oh yeah, I performed to this song one time. And he was like, I tipped somebody 100 for performing this song one time, and we realized that that was each other. So, um, truly ships passing in the night. We, we had so many of those odd Coincidences where it's like, Oh, we, maybe we're supposed to meet at this time. Maybe we're supposed to meet at this time. But of course, that's not the way the universe works. Right? You're supposed to things happen the way that they're supposed to. And, and we met exactly when we were supposed to. Uh, so one, one fateful night. And this was, you know, basically right after I had gotten out of my previous marriage and that kind of had ended a little bit prior, Travis had just gotten out of a relationship as well. And. We had both separately again, taken separate vows to be like, you know what, no, I'm going to be single for a while. I've already gone through like the relationship thing. Look, we've tried it, honey. We need to do something else. We need to get out there and sample the wares. You know what I mean? Whatever that means, it's time to be the next couple of months. You're the town bicycle. Everybody gets a ride and you're going to find your favorite partner. So that was the that was the philosophy that we're both kind of going into. And it's funny because it's partly Because of that philosophy that we found each other that night, because of course, we're on a particular app. Um, and, uh, that shall not be named because frankly, it's a toxic environment. Um, you know, you got to do what you got to do out there. If you're young and having fun, go for it. But boy, be safe, be safe. Anyways. So, uh, we're on a particular app and it happened and it was Travis. And so we, um, we started to, to chat there and I was like, you know what? Um, come on over, like, come over, let's hang out. Right. Oh, with the worst bicycle with the worst of intentions with the with the naughtiest of intentions. I was like, Hey, come over. Um, and he was like, Oh yeah. Do you, you know, you have anything to drink? And I was like, you know, I don't. Um, but the liquor stores are about to close if you wanted to stop and grab something. And he was like, well, what's your favorite? And I told him and I was like, but don't try and get that. It's all the way on the other side of town. There's just this one liquor store in the whole city that sells it. That's silly. Just grab whatever and come over. Well, I don't know how fast he drove, but he managed to make it to that liquor store in time, uh, make it to that liquor store in time and grab my favorite. And so then he shows up at my door holding this bottle and maybe it was the bottle or maybe it was his eyes, but it was love at first sight. And I, I saw him and I immediately was like, Oh, my first thought was both this combination of joy and excitement, but also this, Oh, no, because it was like, Oh, no, I'm in love. I'm not supposed to be in love when it was truly the same on me too, because like walking up to the door, I remember. feeling like this energy of like, something is bringing me forward. Right. And like, it was truly like when he opened the door, it was like everything else just disappeared. And again, it was this, Oh no, what did I just do? This isn't the plan. This was not the plan. And we never looked back and I'm so grateful. Yeah, we, we ended up. You know, we got around to the tour to France eventually, but for a while that we, we actually sat down, we talked for hours, hours, hours. And I think it was about hour two or three that I told him I loved him. This is some lesbian energy right here. It is. It should have been a red flag. It should have been. Okay. He's crazy. I need to leave. But since he was feeling the same thing and we have that kind of shared energy anyway, um, uh, Yeah, it just was. It just was love at first sight. I literally didn't. It wasn't just I love you. It was I love you and I think we're going to spend the rest of our lives together. Yeah. So get into that drama and please keep in mind too. I didn't live in Minneapolis at the time. I was living in northern Minnesota 4. 5 hours away. Yeah. And so we maybe we can get into the logistics of that because even that Well, it was the next day, though. You took me down. Yeah. Yeah. So we drove 45 minutes south and we went to see his sister. Well, his chosen sister. So Travis definitely in the process, like he was saying earlier, developed that chosen family. Um, and so we went to see his chosen family sister, uh, and that she was having a bonfire and he like introduced me and like this whole thing, um, all within 48 hours. So it was. Mhm. 24 hours. Yeah, it was pretty, pretty fast and crazy. But then Travis had to go back, right? Travis had his job and his home so far away. Um, but he made constant, like, I don't know how you did this because I didn't have a car at the time. So he would drive once or twice a week down to see me in Minneapolis, which is just. Ludicrous, crazy. I mean, I remember I would call him on the road and, and just talk to him because I was like, you're going to fall asleep, you're on the road so much. And he would, he would leave right after he got off work and then he would leave in just enough time to get back for his next shift. Um, but I mean, it was love. And so eventually, you know, in the next little bit, we were able to get an apartment together and he moved down to the cities and yeah. And then COVID hit, and then COVID hit. This is a serious, like, lesbian timeline, like, incredible. Wow, wow. Well, we were pretty depressed at that point, because it's like, COVID hit, and we were literally, like, I feel like we had a, a 20 year relationship compacted down into that year, two years, where we were just with each other. 100 percent of the time. We did. We did the math the other day. How many in how many years we've been together? 5. 5 5. 5 years. In those 5. 5 years we have spent less than 20 days apart. Wow. So like total and I'm not talking like a stretch. I'm saying 20 total days in the last 5. 5 years are a day that we didn't see each other. Oh my gosh. So yeah, we just never Never parted. Oh my gosh. I mean, I know that I've heard this story before, but I just, I could cry listening to it all over again. Cause it's just so like, I remember you guys kind of talking about like, like fate and all of that stuff too. And when we met and I, yeah, those are definitely the vibes. Um, Travis, I am curious, when James said, I love you at hour two, what was your response? My response was, I was floored because I was feeling the same. And as someone who, I'm a, as far as Zodiac, I'm a Cancer, and so I often lead with my feelings. feelings. And so I often, as I meet someone new, I tend to, you know, keep those to myself. But like because I was feeling the same thing, it was like, Oh, and because I felt that walking up to the door to it kind of like solidified what I was feeling. And yeah, I was like, Oh, this is fast. But it was like Again, this wasn't the plan, but I love him too. So it's all okay. I think what he did was he slipped a think in there. He's like, I think I love you too. Did I? Which is a very clever way of playing it cool. Right? Like I'm not committing, but I'm also not going to leave you hanging here. Wow. Wow. That's so beautiful. And so at what point, you guys said you've been together for five and a half years. When did you guys get engaged? How far in were we? Let's think about this. Okay. Was it two, two years? Two and a half years? Not, it was about a year. Let's. Think about this might take a minute. I know it was during Covid. I know it was during Covid. I know it was like, and that was a blur. So who can remember what happened during that time? Right. So it was during the pandemic that could have been, can't say covid. Um, we can't say covid pandemic. So during the pandemic, uh, and it was, it was some at 20, 20 minutes felt. 20 years. So who knows? But sometime in there, uh, sometime in there we got engaged and it was the worst when, when we got engaged, we had been doing the door dash at the time. We w we had been doing a lot of other odd jobs together. I had to make extra money during the pandemic because everything that we were doing at the time was so dependent upon personal interaction. I, I had been doing like entertainment and gig economy and that died completely. So I went from having a decent income to nothing. Uh, so DoorDash was a lifesaver, but at the same time. We had one vehicle at the time, which is, we're actually back to one vehicle. But that's just'cause we're in Chicago and two vehicles is crazy. Um, but at the time, we, you know, that's what we, that our means were one vehicle and so we would deliver DoorDash together. Mm-hmm And so we literally would spend hours in the car, just me and him and look, we love each other and like I said, we have only been apart for what, a couple. Maybe, maybe, maybe a dozen days, right? But boy, that was a test, right? You really do find a way to get on each other's absolute last nerve. And it was, it was the first year, like it's the first year of like discovering who each other are, it's discovering how each other. Right. It's discovering what, uh, Oh, this triggers you. And I don't necessarily understand why, but now I know. And all of those things figuring out, um, you know, how the other person, you might love their energy, right? You might love them heart and soul, but you don't necessarily know how they tick, right? You don't know all of their history yet. You don't know. who the details in the minutia of who they are as a person. Um, and so in the process of figuring that out, you step on each other's toes and you bump heads and you know, there is static, there is electricity, there is thundershock, there is thunderstorm. Um, and this was, uh, this was a thunderstorm day. It was just awful. Like we, we had had a true F you fight, where we were just genuinely mad at each other. And I remember there was this moment after where it had kind of resolved. We were still like, we're still, but it had like kind of settled and resolved. And I knew, and, and, and I was, I looked at him and I was like, even though I am as mad at you as I can imagine. I still love you, right? I still love you so much. I love you more than I could possibly love any other human being. And at that moment, and I knew he felt the same way. It was like a moment of connection. We knew because we were holding each other and I think there were tears. Yeah, we were like holding each other crying. Yeah. And it was coming down. Like we were so upset with each other, but we knew it was, we knew we were going to get past that moment. Yep. And we knew that we still loved each other. It's kind of where I was at that same. And so I was just holding him crying and I was like, you want to marry me? And I was like, yeah, it sounds like it wasn't planned. We didn't have a ring or anything like that. And it wasn't, um, you know, didn't get down on one knee. It just, it was that moment of knowing that like. If we can survive today, we can survive anything and we truly are going to be together forever. Like, if today didn't break us and, and we can get to that place and still end up at the end of the day, loving each other, it's forever. Yeah. Yeah, that, that truly must be like one of the most magical proposals ever because Yeah, you were like, I, I've seen you at your lowest and I still like, love you so much and, and want to be with you and know that we can do it. That's, oh my gosh, I just got chills. Wow. And it, it, and it's, it's a wonderful feeling too, because some people, you know, I, and I, I love those people who have those like, extravagant, wonderful engagements. That's wonderful. But like the security that I felt in our, in that moment. Is like, I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Oh my guys. Wow. That's so beautiful., so you got engaged and then you started planning just the most amazing, wonderful wedding. So I'm curious if you could kind of share, obviously I know it was. It's such an important day, but share kind of like a condensed version of your wedding and then kind of in that if you have any like tips for maybe other queer couples who are also planning. Well, we, um, we sure didn't start planning. We sure did not do that actually. We waited and we postponed and we couldn't figure out when would be the right time or when it would make sense. And we, with our jobs. As you know, constantly moving, hopefully now settled for a little bit, but constantly moving. And so, uh, it just was never, it never felt right. It always felt like, oh, I got this other things, other things, other things are important right now. But eventually it was just like, you know what now, I don't know what it was, but something clicked and now is the time and a little bit prior to that. I think the dream is important. So we, we had, uh, we woke up in the morning one morning and we had both had this incredibly vivid dream and we didn't want to share it right away because it was so important. So we kind of like looked over at each other. It was like, Hey, I had a dream last night. And Oh, I had a dream too. The thing with us too is that we both know when we're not telling each other something too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like we both woke up and like looked at each other and it's like, you're not saying yourself, right. Yeah. Like, what's up? Yeah. Like what are you not talking about? Um, yeah. So there was a lot of that energy, but um, basically we, long story short, we, we had had the same dream the same night. Um, of our wedding or some vision of it. Um, and you know, we knew that it was going to, basically the dream was, um, we were getting married, we knew that there were these rows of white chairs, it was by a body of water, there were like rocks by the water, uh, and we saw these buildings behind us, there were kind of these two story buildings with white frames around the windows, and, um, So we're like, oh, that's that's cool. Like we didn't we didn't take it necessarily as, oh, this is the place, you know, where we're going to get married or it's going to look exactly like that. But we're like, I mean, it was something right? I mean, you don't have the same and it was eerie. Like, who has the same dream the same night? Like, come on. Like, I don't even know that that has ever happened to me. To me, that certainly has not happened to me ever at any other point in my life. I don't think I mean, I've ridden somewhere. Oh, great. Well, anyway, at least we're gonna adopt if we ever have kids. But anyway, so, uh, we had the same dream. And so part of the planning really did revolve around finding This location, even though it was this dream, like I really did not expect to find it. But I was in the office one day and, um, we manage properties as that's what we do. Um, and one of my residents came into the office and, you know, she said, Oh, you know, when it when When are you guys going to get married? And I kind of explained like, Oh, just never had the time. And she's like, well, you gotta, you gotta. And I told her about the dream and she's like, got to find this place. You got to do it. You got to do it right now. And so she literally sat down with me and we started to look for venues together. My office and she, um, she was insisted like she would not, she would not leave until we found something and I, we knew, well, I, I didn't really at first think of it this way. I wasn't sure if it was like by the ocean or where, but in my head, I was like, I know my family is going to come and I'm sure we'll talk about this a little bit too. Um, but I, we didn't know if Travis family would come or not, but I knew that it was important that if yeah. They were going to choose to come that they have the option and that it is just as easy for them to attend as it is for my family and the other people we were going to invite. So I kind of was like, well, Lake Superior's halfway kind of in between where my family lives and where his family lives. So let's look on the North shore. And as I just kind of went a bit literally venue by venue up the North Shore, I opened the website for where we got married, um, which is a place called Larsmont Cottages. If you happen to be looking for a place, they're absolutely lovely. They did a wonderful job and, um, it was perfect. It was like, it was like the dream had come to life and, um, yeah, absolutely. So we, we decided to have our, have our wedding there. And I think that once we had narrowed down those venues and we could narrow down the dates. And that is really what, uh, helped. We, we had, we had found those venues and then we spend Thanksgiving with my family and then we spend Christmas with his. And it so happened that like we were going to head up in a couple of weeks to go see, um, the, um, To go up for Thanksgiving to see my family and then we went and saw our wedding venue and it was gorgeous So we went inside we were able to then book it and then we started to plan the rest of the wedding Which is then when we found you well, and we really started with ping points because There are so many, and this, this worked its way, some traditions that we didn't even expect worked their way in because weddings are by their nature, somewhat traditional, right? We're pulling out all of these, these social traditions to create these events, but at the same time, like, Again, as part of the Alphabet Mafia, you grow up knowing things are a little bit different for you, right? So, so things can be a little bit different. These traditions can be a little bit different. You don't have to do all of these things. Um, even as we were writing our ceremony together, my dad tried to work in some of those Catholic marriage ceremony ping points, because he's like, it's not a marriage if you don't. I did not know that. That's Yeah, there's definitely some stuff that worked its way into that ceremony. I'm struggling to remember them now. But yeah, he definitely worked in some, some like Catholic wedding language, which is hilarious. Uh, but, but we started the planning process of what are, what about this event is going to be important to us? And I think that people, um, you know, and even my sister right now is planning her wedding and every couple approaches. They're wedding so differently for us. It was really about what? What we knew that it had to be something that we would enjoy, obviously, I think everybody has that as as a core of their wedding planning. But then also we wanted it to be something everyone who is attending would enjoy. Right? This is we thought about it. Yes, it's our day. Yes, it's for us, but it's also a celebration that we want everybody to participate in and enjoy and be a part of and that will just raise the vibration of everything. So, um, also because we are inviting so many people. from different walks of our life to especially I said, because again, we weren't sure if my family was going to come. So I had invited people from multiple walks of my life and they were all coming to enjoy, you know, one of the most wonderful days of my life. And with me coming from this religious back, I mean, we both came from the religious background. I didn't want a lot of, um, religious backgrounds. A religion, um, rooted in it, unless it was personal to me, because that was really important to me because I didn't want it to feel, you know, like I was calling back to that, um, to that trauma that I didn't identify with anymore. There's nothing wrong with it. If that's what you identify with it for me personally, I just didn't need that in my. day. And so that's why we chose the things that we did. And we really sat down and we really, you know, thought about it. And it was really to make sure that it was really personal to us. And listen to your podcast was really something that I did actually, he listened to this podcast. To really like, you know, take the, to take everything that people were, you know, saying and to make sure that this is really personal and as a member of the queer community, you know, we are, we have the privilege of kind of carving out our own lane and doing it our way because, you know, it's our love and, you know, we don't have to do it this traditional way. Yeah. I mean, I know it started, it started with. Like, I wanted there to be great food. I wanted it to be this experience that, again, it was kind of over a weekend. So there was a multiple day, people would arrive the day before, stay in the cabins, enjoy good food, hang out, and just kind of have that more leisurely. experience to it where people could come and go have a little bit of freedom and just kind of the whole weekend was meant to be the wedding, not just the ceremony. We wanted to have really good food. We were lucky to have an amazing restaurant that was right there on site that was catering, which was great. And It ended up being so much easier than I even imagined. Actually, we were very lucky. They did so much of it for us, um, that, like, it was, it was very easy. Um, and, um, you know, we got to really select some amazing food. And, um, I, I, I think it was great. I was very, very happy with that. The decor was really easy. And, and we talked about, like, oh, well, maybe we'll want to add on this or that. But what the venue is able to provide us was so perfect that it just didn't need anything extra. Um, and it was like, well, maybe we should do flowers. Uh, we didn't end up doing any extra flowers, although we did buy those, those, those trees. They were also okay with us bringing in our own things. So we had our own, um, centerpiece. We had our own centerpieces, which, um. His mom and family put together, which was amazing, which added like a per, uh, personal touch, which I really, really appreciate. Yeah, that was really nice to have that. Yeah, my family was really helpful in putting together all of those other elements too, like, uh, so, I don't know. It would not have been the same without, without all of their help. No, absolutely. I mean, they put together like the The gift box for the cards and they put together the guest book and they put together all the centerpieces and arrangements and, um, yeah, everybody was just just incredibly. Incredibly helpful, but we were really lucky. I think in and maybe again, it all comes down to that, that destiny of choosing the right location. And maybe that's why it was all in the dream and everything, because everything was so contained, um, everybody got to show up at this 1 location. They got to stay and like, sleep the nights there, right? I'm on site. The ceremony was right there on site at the lake. Um, and, uh, we were able to bring in. And we did, we wrote our own ceremony. Um, Travis wrote most of it and then I came in and did the first edit. Uh, and then my mom and dad came in and tweaked a couple of things here and there when we were at their, at their place one time and, um, yeah, that's, that's where a couple of pieces of the Catholic ceremony, I can't remember what it was, it's like, I take the something kind of with this ring. With this ring, blah, blah, blah. And so that language got added in, which is perfectly fine. Yeah. He's like, it's not, it's not, it's like, I can't remember his words. It was like, it's not a wedding or it's a, it doesn't make sense. You have to have it. Uh, it was great. Yeah. And we, we had incorporated just kind of different stuff from different cultures that we had found into the ceremony that struck a chord with us. We did a hand tithing, get it? Struck a chord. Anyway, no, like we have, we did a hand washing at the beginning of the ceremony. Um, we did a hand kind of tithing, um, for, for that kind of end of the ceremony. Um, and then we wrote a pretty extensive. tear inducing vows. Yes. I cried. I sobbed through my, I sobbed through my vows. I think everybody did, but it was a pretty, it was a pretty teary. According to the pictures, everyone was crying. Everyone was crying. That's for sure. And my mother, my goodness, your, your mother performed wonderful, like He coming home and like it's always been a lovely poem. I've always thought it was great, but when I tell you she breathed life into it that I could not even imagine and just everybody was so moved and touched by it. It really was a lovely moment and to have your niece there to be a part of it and to give you your rope for the hand tithing. My dad gave me my rope for the hand tithing. It was just, it was all very perfect. It was perfect. It was lovely. Um, But yeah, that was kind of our ceremony, our planning process. I mean, man, boy, I wish that I had more, um, complications with it, but ours was so delightfully simple. We really relied on other people, and I think that that's, you know, important. But we didn't have a wedding planner or anything. We just had the one that came with the venue and we had you. Oh, gosh. Yeah, let's let's take a minute because honestly, I know you did not invite us here to, uh, get your horn or anything like that. fully. But man, were you such an important part of it? Pictures having wonderful photography on our wedding was one of the most important pink points for us. It was something. Look, we're doing this. It is for us. It is for them. It is for everyone. It is going to be a moment that we want to remember, and we want to be able to take away some beautiful images. We want images that we're able to share with friends and family, even the ones that maybe aren't able to attend and and to have that. And so it was so, so important to us. I can't tell you. We looked through, I don't know how many instagrams of different wedding photographers and, um, it, it, we did talk about it a lot and it ended up being really important to us to have somebody that understands our experience and our story and, you know, is able to relate to that. And, and, and we didn't like Travis was saying, we didn't know whether or not His family would choose to come. Um, and while his niece was able to attend, the rest of his family chose that to come. Right. Um, but had they chosen to come, what a difficult, what a difficult social situation to, to have to negotiate, um, and it would have been a situation that I know if it would have happened that you would have been able to navigate with grace and, you know, professionalism that I'm not sure if, I mean, I'm sure there would be some other people, but like you, you were, Um, you are, uh, especially qualified to handle. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's, there's no doubt in my mind, um, that it would have been okay. Yeah. It would have been a challenge, my goodness, but it would have been okay. Yeah. And even my family, my gosh, them alone, I mean, they're opening, loving, and accepting, but I, I distinctly remember you, um, accepting some confessions from, from some of my family at length. Yeah. Absolutely. Probably deeply wine induced, um, maybe even jobs of tequila induced, um, and, and handling that with such incredible grace. And some of the lovely, like little captures, the aside captures, because we had specifically asked, we want. Candid moments, right? These, those things that might be the embarrassing moments. Uh, the shot that you got with the salt on my sister's wrist, um, as they were on piercing was so lovely and it ended up being so much more than that. You know, not just an embarrassing photo to pull out at Christmas. It wasn't that at all. It, it was this moment of. Um, my, my sisters and my nieces and, and Travis's niece all bonding and, and Travis's niece really finding that love and connection with another family and realizing that she had this extended family. Now it was this whole moment, uh, of, of realization for her that this, this wedding was so much. More that it was now she has this extended family that loves her and and has this unconditional love for her because she's now family too. Uh, so it ended up being really important in all those moments. We, we treasure them. Yes, absolutely. Wow. Wow. Thank you guys so much. Oh my gosh. I feel like I need to pay you now. No, no, no. This is a non sponsored, uh, no sponsorship. This is not a paid partnership. No, wow. That, that's really means. And it was such an honor to be there. Um, yeah, it was seriously such a perfect day. You guys did amazing. And, I do have, just two quick follow up questions. So, James, maybe you can touch on, I'm curious. So for those listening who are not familiar with Minnesota, as we mentioned, they got married on the North Shore, um, which is about, yeah, two and a half, three hours away from Minneapolis, like city life, all of that. And so I have found that it is kind of like, okay, once you start to get further and further away, it can be a little bit questionable with vendors. And so, um. I would love for you to chat kind of about even reaching out to the venue, like if they had representation or like what that was like. And then, Travis, I would love if you could talk about, it's something that again, you're always more than welcome to say no. Um, but I know that my family will not be at my wedding either. And it's something that. I don't know. I still find hard and I know that a lot of listeners also have family like that. And so, um, just wondering anything you're willing to share to kind of talk about that and how you kind of dealt with that too. I'll start with the easy one while you ruminate on that for a moment. Yeah. So yeah, I we definitely did most of everything through the venue. The venue provided our food, the venue provided everything. So in that sense, um, vendors was pretty easy they did have their preferred list of vendors for stuff that we could, um, you know, reach out to as well. But I mean, it was more limited, right? Uh, it was more limited in terms of vendors up there. And we did have to, you know, if we were going to go beyond anything that we did really think about. All of that. Um, and it was either going to be, you know, particularly when we were looking at considering doing flowers and stuff, we had looked at florists in the area and it was like, well, we kind of like this one kind of like this one. But then we go on instagram and find something that we liked way, way more, but they don't really service that area. Or if they do, there's a big up charge to it. Um, so for us, I mean, the location was so key and so important and so vital that we didn't even consider moving it to accommodate that. It was, it was just the right distance from everybody, right? So what I heard you ask. So something that I noticed about that particular vendor. So when calling back to when he was in his office and his Um, and his resident came in and they started looking at vendors. The first thing that I did when he sent me those vendors is I immediately went into reviews and I did search for queer people who were like, Oh, I had my wedding here or I went on to their Instagram to see if there were any pictures of queer or. Um, gay weddings, because that was the first thing as someone who grew up north that I was hyper conscious of because I wanted to make sure that that is something that would be okay. And I called Lars, or I called the venue and I was, and I was like, Hey, I'm thinking about having my wedding here. My My fiance or my husband and I think I said my husband and I are thinking about having our wedding here to see what the reaction was. I'm like, is that something that you would be open to? And she's like, Oh, absolutely. We blah, blah, blah. I, you know, we had a wedding here for a same sex couple here last year and it was absolutely wonderful. And that is something that. Encouraged me to move forward because whenever there was, you know, whenever that was sent to me and it was anything past, you know, Kern Rapids, Minnesota, which is, you know, 20 minutes north of Minneapolis. I'm like, I need to call to make sure that this is a safe space because that was something that I needed to make sure was that it was going to be a safe space for my family and my friends to celebrate the important day. That is so interesting. Travis. Nailed it. Um, and it's funny because my experience and Travis's experience. So different, right? Like I hear when you ask that question the way that I heard it and Travis immediately hears it that other way, right? And I think you both have a shared experience here. Are you from northern Minnesota or central Minnesota now? No, I'm from Twin Cities. Yeah. Okay. In any case, Travis, you know, hears that, um, and he did do that. He went, he checked the Instagrams, he checked for reviews, um, and, and called to make sure it would be a safe space. It's not even something and maybe I'm naive. It's not even something that crossed my mind. Um, and you know, he did for him and he made sure, made sure that was the case. I mean, that's great. I like I wish like that's the goal is for us all to hopefully be at that mental space safely one day. So, um, but yeah, I just know that the North Shore seems so hit or miss still like it's it just feels crazy. Sometimes when I travel up there or networking with people up there, it just feels like you really never know what you're going to get. Like some people are Yeah. You know, great and awesome and amazing. And some people are like very outspoken and you're like, that should have been an inside thought. So, um, yeah, no, but thank you for, for sharing both sides. I think it's funny too, because like, as you are, you know, maybe like a career business owner, it's like, I can see to where it's just like, you, you almost have to lead with that because you want to, you need to see how they're going to react, but it's, it's. It's an interesting experience as someone who has, you know, has been, as someone who is a minority, um, both ethnically and, um, and a gay man, it's something that I am hyper aware of. Even it's funny because even moving to Chicago in the past year, it's like, Oh, moving to a new region, working with new coworkers, is this going to be okay? And as someone who is in my late thirties, that. You know, it was always in the back of my mind, and I, you know, I hope for the day that it doesn't have to be, um, and we'll see where we, you know, move forward in the next couple of years, but, um, it, it is, it's something, and again, like, James and I are very opposite, but I think that's also why we are able to complement each other, and it's truly wonderful, so. Yep thank you for that. Dive in on family. Yes. So I think that the main thing in order for me to leading up to the wedding, um, there were, um, Leading up to the wedding, I needed to be forgiving both to my family, to myself and just the whole situation as whole to realize that it's, that this is going to be the way that it is. James and I were luckily able to have a conversation with my mother, um, and then I was able to have a conversation with my sister separately to where I let them know about the wedding. Um, I let them know that they were absolutely invited, but I also understood if they were not able to come, they politely declined, and then we moved forward. Um, I, it was hard. There was one moment on the wedding day that I was thinking about them, and you know, it was sad that they couldn't be there and celebrate with me. But then I also. Had to come to the place of, if this wasn't going to be as joyous for them as it was for me, then I truly didn't need them there. Everyone who was there who felt the joy that I did was there and that's enough for me. Um, and that's, it was truly the perfect day and I still love them. They're my family, but I really had to like, Let that go and forgive them for that, and they're, you know, and we were up there for Thanksgiving this past year, and there was no Like animosity towards them, like it was all, nothing has changed. And that was something that I really drove home with them is that nothing on James or I's part is going to change. We're just going to be married and nothing for them appeared to really have changed either. The one funny thing I will say is that they wouldn't like acknowledge our wedding rings. But they kept trying to like take sneaky peeks at them, but then they like, wouldn't like ask to see them. Even my mom was like, Oh, can I see your watch? Which is on my left hand. Like, your watch is so nice. Can I see it? You've seen my watch. You don't need to see my watch. I'm like, yeah, very, very nice. Thank you. Thank you. We know what we're talking about, but it's something that like I'm, I had to truly. like sit with myself and, you know, not necessarily meditate on, but just be okay with. And I know that's easier said than done because it is, it is hard. Um, but just kind of come at it with a forgiving energy and really just realize that. They are still your family, you still have love for them, but the person that will be standing next to you is now your family, and that's going to be the most person, the most important person in your life now, and that is how you're going to move forward into the next chapter. I think just on, on my end, when I met Travis's family, even for the first time, I knew that this was going to be a challenge. Uh, you know, even before a wedding was, was in the picture, I knew that it was going to be a challenge. And so I, I know that there are other people out there who might be dealing with similar dynamics. And all I can say is be forgiving, approach this from a place of love always. And only with love. It, it, it serves no one to go in and expect them to change overnight or to, you know, challenge their belief systems or force, force anything on them. It doesn't help, right? Just be a good person. Approach them with love. Um, be in their space if they'll allow you to be. Uh, I know that sometimes you don't even get that far, but even in, even in conversations there, hopefully can sense the love that you have. for their family. Um, and always keep bringing that love, bringing that love, bringing that love because love always wins. It will win out eventually. Um, it might not be everything that you want overnight. You might not have your family coming to your wedding tomorrow as a result. But maybe, just maybe, they'll, they'll invite you up for the weekend, or they'll invite you to Thanksgiving, or they'll welcome you into their home, or that very first time that they say, I love you, or that very first time that they give you a hug and say, I'm going to miss you when you leave. Those things are priceless, and they say everything that needs to be said. So even if you don't get to change their opinions overnight, even if they're not going to be there for that moment, because just mentally, they just can't get there yet, they, the love will always win. So as long as you're bringing that to the table, um, I think you're doing the right thing and you're doing everything that you can and it, it was sad for me to his family couldn't be there. I, I, I, it, it didn't hurt me because I knew where they were coming from and I've always accepted where they were coming from. But it was sad. There was a moment. Um, you know, there was a moment for me that day. I remember of when I saw Emma there alone when I saw his niece there alone. And, and, you know, she was his only kind of family representation other than his chosen family other than friends and other people who were there, but it, it, it hurt that moment. It did. Um, I think that that's unavoidable, but you gotta, you gotta acknowledge it and just go back to love. Go back to love, go back to the moment, go back to the person who's now going to be the most important or is and remains and will continue to be the most important person in your life and, and go back to feeling the joy of that moment and celebrating with the people who are there to celebrate. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. And I know you kind of both did touch on it, but also, obviously, just with the caveat of like, all of that within the means of your own, like, personal safety and health and mental well being and all of that too. Um, yeah, super appreciate you. Both sharing your perspectives. Okay, kind of just wrap things up, um, as a fun little bonus question. Let's end with talking about like, what are some of each of your favorite things about each other, your relationship? Either both. That's too long of a pause. do you want me to start? One of, one of the favorite things about our relationship is that we are so opposite because you, you see those couples that are so opposite and it's not a good thing. And that's, that's not how we are. We are, we learn from each other and we really compliment each other. And I really value that in our relationship because we, we can see things from, I mean, we had an example earlier and we can really learn from each other. And I really value that. And he always makes me smile and he's so fucking funny and sexy and I absolutely love it. Uh, I, I, what's not to love about Travis? He's such a warm, kind soul, um, and you know, I, we obviously didn't touch on all of the life at Year, I'm sure, just a little bit of, of, of um, Talking that we did today, you get a little bit of his life experience and and everything that he's gone through in his life and how that has shaped him to be just this incredible man. It's incredibly intelligent person. It's incredibly emotionally and spiritually intelligent person as well. It's just incredible. Uh, and I, I will always appreciate how supportive he is. Um, I think that we both push each other to do more, to be better, to, to learn, to grow, to experience new things. That's why we keep on moving. Um, but we, we push each other in the best way possible. We are always there to support each other no matter what. At the end of the day, I always have his back, he's always got mine and, um, it allows us to, you know, achieve whatever we want in life and in our relationship and, um, trust. I mean, I can't, the way that we are able to trust each other, I don't know, I don't know. It's just, it's, it's, um, something that you can't replicate. So I don't, I don't know, I love those things. Wonderful things. Wow, that is so incredibly sweet. Yeah, you guys. You, you two are just the best and have the best vibes. And I just, I wish nothing but happiness for, for all your years to come. So all the good vibes in the 25s. Yes. Oh my gosh. Wow. And I know that people listening are going to get so much out of this, but hopefully like this episode for as long, the internet will allow it to be. Alive and live, you guys can revisit it any other time that a thunderstorm approaches and of how great your love is. So not very many thunderstorms these days, maybe a little, maybe a little static, but that's it. Yeah. We've already worked through the bad weather. Oh my gosh. Awesome. Well, thank you guys so, so much. This was wow. So amazing. Any last things you want to say before we end this episode? I don't think so. I don't know, but thanks everybody for listening to our story. I hope you found some of it meaningful, impactful, entertaining, entertaining, and, uh, yeah, all love, all love, and, um, mwah.