61. Confronting Problematic Vendors – From Both Sides of the Aisle

today we’re diving into a topic that’s not always comfortable but so important: confronting problematic vendors.

Whether you're a couple planning your wedding or a vendor working in the industry, you’ve probably witnessed or experienced something that made you think, “Yikes… what do I do here?”

We’re talking everything from microaggressions to “wow… that REALLY like REALLY should have been an inside thought” moments, and how to handle these moments with clarity, care, and courage. We'll look at this from both perspectives: how couples can respond, and how vendors can step up and hold each other accountable.

I learned about this week's "Know Homo" segment from HERE.

HERE is the episode on more red flags.

The intro and all instrumentals were written, sung and recorded by @JaynaDavisMusic

Queerly Beloved, I'm so glad you joined!
Please keep the community going by checking me out on instagram @wildlyconnectedphoto and come say hi! I'd love to hear from you! :)

Transcript

0:41

Hi. Hello. Welcome back to Queer Beloved Podcast for all things lgbtq plus weddings, love and beyond. I'm your host Anna Ayo. She her pronouns. I'm the owner of Wildly Connected Photography and I'm currently in Minneapolis. I say that because I have lots of travel plan this year, but Minneapolis is home so. Hello everybody. Hope you're doing well. If you're in Minneapolis like me, it's been hot. So hope you all are hydrated and getting excited for summer. I know that for many of us summer also means that pride is quickly approaching and I am very excited for that. And hopefully you are as well, even though yeah, pride is. I'm feeling rough this year. But anyway, moving along this week on No homo, we are discussing Polari. I'm not entirely sure if I'm saying that right, so please correct me if so. But if you're like, Anna, what the f is that Polari was originally actually spelled a little bit. Differently, but it refers to coded slang used primarily by British gay men to communicate with one another at a time when homosexuality was illegal in the United Kingdom. It was not formally decriminalized. Excuse me. This was not formally decriminalized until 1967, so by speaking code with one another, it allowed queer people of the 19th and early 20th centuries to form community and find intimacy. Many Polari terms take the firm of nonsensical sounding, rhyming slang with words often derived from cockney, Yiddish, and the Ramani language, and sometimes the words are still used today. So I will link an article that gives you some really fun examples of these terms. For example, one of them was even just like. Betty for a drink. I mean, how fun is that? And if we were to put a sentence all together, it sounds something like vada, the dolly dish, which translates into check out the hot guy. I mean, come on. Like, why aren't we still using this? This is so fun. Or maybe we need to create a modern one, one that's maybe also a little bit more. I guess we'll just say, not just focus on the gay men. I did read that, you know, lesbians also use this a little bit, but that it kind of has roots from the gay male community. So, so fun. Highly encourage you to look at some of the words and maybe incorporate some into your everyday lingo if you're, if you're feeling it. So. Thanks for joining me on No Homo this week. Also, if you are just tuning in, just to clarify the no, homo is KNOW and we are all on this journey to learn more about our culture and things like that together. So yeah, thanks for joining me on that. All right, so this week's episode, let's get into it. So whether you're a couple planning your wedding or a vendor, you've probably witnessed or experienced something that made you think, Ooh, what do I do here? We're talking everything from small interactions or microaggressions to wow that really like, really should have been in inside thought moments and how to handle these moments with care and with courage. And I'm gonna be talking about this from both perspectives, both how couples can respond and how vendors can step up and hold each other accountable. And then kind of also ending with a segment on how to deal with this in real time, because I think that's really important. And this is something that's been a lot on my mind a lot recently. And I think, you know, obviously these are things that I, this is my job, this is my everyday life. Like these are things that I, that I pick up on a lot. And so I think that it's just really important we finally have a conversation about it. And just one other quick note is that I think, I think it's important to note that. A lot of the examples that I say naturally obviously come from a photographer's perspective, and a lot of these examples apply to vendors that interact with couples a lot more heavily, such as planners, photographers, videographers, DJs, things of that sort, but. Even if you have a role that isn't the most public facing or like by the couple 24 7, I still think you should do your part in speaking up for the couple and incredibly important playing your role in shaping our wedding culture behind the scenes. So, if you're a vendor listening and you're like, well, I'm not always like by the couple or whatever, like, this episode is still for you and I hope. That you stick around and can get some things from it as well. So couples, if you're still with me, this part is for you. So, I think, you know, I've, I have previous episodes that are all about like red flags in the wedding industry, so definitely go check that one out if you're interested in learning a little bit more just about what to look out for. But I did think it was applicable for this week to re-mention that you as a couple, I think that it's really important for you to, to have your own personal boundaries and limits and expectations for what feels good to you as a couple. And I think this is so important because of course every couple is so unique and you have to pull in things like. Your current situation, your life experiences, also where you're living and what queer culture and gay marriage is like in your specific state or city. So before all else, I just again, want to encourage couples like before you get into like the excitement and the depths of wedding planning, like I just really encourage you guys to sit down and chat like. What is our capacity for, for working with folks who are maybe not exactly on the same page as us? And because every couple is so unique and has different lived experiences and presents differently, it's gonna look really differently for every couple. So yeah, I just think it's important to chat about that and, and also specify. What that looks like if it's an interaction that happens over email or if it's something that happens in person, like what's your capacity? How do you wanna respond? And it's totally okay for every couple to have different capacities and like some couples just truly being like, we are really nervous because we have X, Y, and Z reasons, and therefore capacity is just super low and we don't wanna put ourself. Out there too much. And some couples are like, we have, you know, we feel super solid in who we are. We feel safe. We have a community around us. We're willing to like, put ourselves out there to kind of see what will happen okay. So for couples you know, confronting vendors, let's say for example. There is a photographer, a videographer, whose work you're really interested in. Like it really speaks to you. You vibe with it. You're like, I love this person and I haven't like super seen a lot of other people who do this, but when I click on their website, there's not really inclusive language. I don't really see any couples that look like us. I'm not sure what to do. This is where that earlier piece comes into play because for some couples that's. You know, they're just like, I really don't wanna put myself out there and like email this person just to hear them say no. And other couples listen. They might be like, all right girl, let's go. Let's, let's reach out. Let's see what happens. And they might say something like. Hey, just a quick note, we're a queer couple and actually one of us uses they them pronouns. We'd love to work with someone who affirms and celebrates the LGBTQ plus community, but if that's not you, just let us know. Like, I think that there are ways that you can quote unquote confront vendors like that. That kind of lets them know where you're at and like, I feel that an email written like that is very much like. Hey, this is who we are and we're not ashamed of that. And like, if that's not you, that's fine, just tell us. So yeah, I think when vendors are giving red flags I. Yeah, just kind of figure out where you fall on that spectrum. But I felt like it was really important throughout this episode to also address things that happen in real time or in person. Obviously things that happen online or in Facebook groups or over email, like those things suck and like aggressions of, of any form in any place should never take place. Of course, however. Real time in an in-person interaction is just next level. And so I felt like that was imp important to, to mention. So, I will talk a little bit more about when harm happens in the moment in the last part of this episode. So definitely stick around for that. I also wanted to mention the scenario that I have heard couples discuss, and so it felt important to share. So what if a vendor starts out with no red flags, but you progressively start to see them or they progressively are getting worse? This felt important because it brought to mind a story of a wedding from a couple years ago. And. So this couple, I think it's also important to note that this was actually a straight couple. And normally that might not matter, but you'll see why. So I was working with this couple, they're great. They were working with a planner who was helping them, like plan and coordinate and also was doing their flowers. At first, like. I think we were all kind of like, oh yeah, you know, she seems great. Like, seems on top of it, whatever. Come to find out from the couple. That this planner had started making weird remarks to them. Once everything was locked in and she saw we were working together and I was starting to plan engagement photos with them and things like that. She reached out to the couple and was like, like. I don't understand why you're working with this photographer. Like she is, you know, promoting all this queer stuff and like, she started making jokes like, oh ha ha, like, is one of you trans? And I just don't know about it. Like, wouldn't that be so funny? And so she just progressively started making more and more comments like that through leading up to their wedding. To the point that like once we got to the wedding I was like, let me have so many backup plans in place that I don't have to see this planner because Wow. And you know, everything ended up being fine and she actually ended up moving her business to another state and, you know, it was what it was. But I, I share that story because like, whether or not it's, you know, an openly queer couple or not, like this affects everybody. And yeah, sorry, I'm just still thinking about the comment she said and how wild that was. But this affects everybody. And so when we have. Uh, when we confront vendors and we start shaping this culture to be just better across the board, like the, it makes everybody's lives better. Okay. So this is important. And of course, I know we're focusing on the queer community here, like, that's so important. But I just wanted to say like, like with most things that impact the queer community, like it also impacts everybody. And so like we should all have incentive to, feel that we can call vendors out and, and make our culture better. So I know that was a little bit of a tangent, but on the note of vendors kind of getting worse over time, I think that if you are a couple, I think this is a really, really great time to lean on others around you, whether that's people in your wedding party, family members, or other vendors like. I think you can call people in to help you chat with this person. And I say that because, yeah, I'm, I'm planning my own wedding right now, and I just, I can't imagine like being in this position of, yes, of course things are stressful, but also like, oh my gosh, this is like so exciting. Like this time in my life is so special planning something that. It's so exciting and I can't wait to marry my person. And then amidst that excitement and everything else that comes with a wedding, you're having to talk to a vendor about the language they're using or how they're addressing you, or something they said or did like. That just feels like not the vibe. So I think that if, if it's getting to a point where you feel you need to say something, but it's not like fully a point where you're like, I don't wanna work with this person, I'd really encourage you to, you know, talk to, like, I can't speak for every vendor across the board. But I know for me personally, if a couple approached me and they said, Hey, our planner's starting to like make us feel really uncomfortable. Like, do you know anything about this? Do you have any advice? Would you be willing to talk to them? Absolutely. Like. I, I think that there are so many vendors who would be like, yes, let me talk to this person. Let me suss out what's going on, and make you not make you subject to, to hearing why they're saying all of these things. Right? Because I think also sometimes confrontations can like be super good and straightforward and healthy, and sometimes they can unfortunately lead to. You finding out some other things and if that, if the latter is the case, like I don't want you to be subject to that. So I guess really what I'm saying is. Yeah, let, we will just run with the planner or coordinator, for example. Could you reach out to your photographer or whatever other vendor you're working with that you feel you really trust? Can you loop them in and just see if they have any advice? And if not that, can you, maybe it's a parent or like a super close friend, can you just be like, Hey, I'm gonna give you this person's email address, like. Are you willing to just chat with this person and kind of see what's up? I think that's totally okay. And you're allowed to lean on your community in times like this. So, I do have, you know, episodes out there too particularly in the Red Flag episode, which I can link in the show notes that if it gets to a point and you need to cut ties with somebody, like I chatted a little bit more about that in that episode and like. Know that it's not feasible for everybody, or sometimes financially it feels like too much of a loss. But if that's not exactly the case for you, like I just want to affirm you that do what's best for you, and you're not gonna wanna work with somebody who is making you stressed out on a super happy day in your life. So just keep that in mind and yeah. So, kind of wrapping up this one for the couples in the aftermath of working with a, a vendor who said some things or did some things, I think that one, if you feel so comfortable, I think that you should leave a review. And I know that many people in, in my generation are similar gen generations. I think we have a tendency to. Not want to leave poor reviews because we don't want to be quote Karen's. And that's super valid and I get that. But I think that there are real ways to leave reviews that are honest and they're not. You know, like if someone says something homophobic or does something homophobic on your wedding day, that already gets rid of all the careness because it's not like you're complaining that your croissant was too dry. Okay. Like we're not on the same level there, so there's already that. But I also think that there are ways you can share reviews that are done with care that also. Openly share with other people what your actual experience was. And I think that's actually really important, like community, helping community. I know that it's sounds so cheesy when I ask for reviews and sometimes I feel bad about it. But of course like I wanna know that a couple had a great time. But like genuinely, I also know that like reviews really do help future people out. Like. Think about when you're looking to like book someone for anything. Like it could just be someone coming to do plumbing. Like reviews are really helpful. Like even just from the standpoint of like, okay, I wanna make sure this person's not creepy, like. Community helping community. Like I think reviews really do that. And so if you're comfortable, I would encourage you to do that with this, with this vendor. And hopefully it actually helps them in the long run and helps them learn from the experience. But if not, at least you are helping out future couples not have to go through what you did. I also just wanted to throw out if you did book this couple somewhere, like the Knot or Wedding Wire or Zola or like a booking platform like that typically there are options to report the vendor. And so, or for example, if you hired a DJ through a company where there is multiple DJs working under one name, any situation like that, I think you totally have the right to report the vendor or let somebody know because yeah, I think that a lot of businesses really care about how couples are treated and they won't know if you don't share with'em. So if you feel safe and comfortable in doing that, I think that's totally the move. All right, moving on. Vendors, I'm talking to you. So listen in vendors, peers, friends, let's get real. As vendors, we're in a unique position to make change in the wedding industry. Couples should definitely not have to bear the burden of calling out harm especially on something that's supposed to be a super happy day. Vendors have the power to shape culture behind the scenes. Let me just, let me just say that again. Vendors have the power to shape the wedding culture behind the scenes. Like I know it's really easy to like think of weddings and like. Think about like the actual day itself because it's such a big day and there's so much hype and there's so much going on, and like that's great, but also like think about how much goes on like year round or in the year leading up to somebody's wedding date. Like we have networking events, we are sharing things, we are going to workshops, we're updating our workflows. Like there are so many times and so many things going on in the moments leading up to a wedding that. Leave room for us as vendors to shape the industry to be better. And that's why I have this podcast. Yeah. So I also wanted to start this section out with a real life example. Like I said, this is, this is my everyday life. I feel like I'm just. Always seeing things and, and he, that's why this episode is being created. But something that came to mind for this one was this was like very early in my career I was planning a workshop, for other photographers to attend. And there was a florist that we had in mind that we wanted to do the flowers for the workshop. And upon hearing that a lot of the couples we were gonna be photographing were queer. Her response was, well, can I do flowers for just a straight couple? And then once you start photographing the queer couple, like I'll take them or not provide flowers for that. Oh man. Is that. Wow. Yeah. Thinking about these stories, man, they still get me even years later.'cause what? You're gonna provide flowers for half of the photos and then delete them for the rest of the photos. Like what? So yeah, this, this does happen behind the scenes and I'm sure that many vendors have stories like this. And so, yeah, let's chat about it. Like what as a vendor is your role in talking to other vendors about their problematic behavior? I think that's similar to how couples need to set boundaries and figure out what that looks like for them. I think it's also totally valid for each vendor to have boundaries and figure out maybe. Their own style of how to approach situations. Like for some vendors, maybe they don't feel super comfortable in the moment, like having a full argument with this person, but maybe instead they let their couples know like, Hey, this florist, I'm taking her off my list. And I really don't think that you or anyone should work with her. And then for other vendors, I think they're maybe a little bit more comfortable with confrontation. And I also should say that so many of these examples are on varying degrees of severity as well. So, I should note too that some of your response I think is dependent on the severity. So I think for something that is, a little bit more severe, you do have some responsibility to say something to that vendor especially if it's in person, which again, we'll talk about here in just a second. But I know that myself included, confrontation is not like our biggest strong suit. And so I wanna acknowledge that. But, I do wanna say yeah, it's important for you as a vendor to kind of figure out like, what feels good for you, how do you wanna handle things? And so on that note, I wanted to talk about calling in versus calling out. Essentially just using, calling in as a friendlier, more gentle, more encouraging way to talk to a vendor versus calling out, which is a little bit more direct and deliberate and yeah. So sometimes people do mess up and it's just from ignorant. It's not ignorance, it's not coming from a bad place. And so if in that situation you feel like, Hey, everything else I know about this person tells me that they're good and that, that they're trying, they just didn't know. I think you can say something like, Hey, I wanted to talk to you about something that came up today. It felt hurtful and a little bit harmful, even if it was unintentional and I thought you might be on, you might wanna be aware of that. Is this something you're open to discussing? I. Versus calling out. If it's a little bit more deliberate it's like actually laced in hatefulness or bigotry, then calling out and warning others is more appropriate. And that could look something like, I can't in good conscious recommend you or work alongside vendors who discriminate. This isn't just a difference of opinion, but it's about people's. Lives and their safety and their comfortability and wellbeing. So I think that as a vendor figure out what feels right for you, but also know that it is kind of on us to judge, like, where is this coming from? Do I know anything else about this person that lets me know? Like, hey, that might have just been a slip up versus like, this is starting to become a pattern. Yeah, so. I think it's important to note too, that like it is okay for this to happen behind the scenes and, you know, many of these situations will it doesn't always have to be public. Sometimes an email or a DM or a private conversation can do that. But if we want safer spaces for queer couples, we have to start behind the scenes. We have to start with the people around us and having these conversations, even when they're really tough. So, yeah, I know it's hard. Like, again, I'm saying this as a person who really does not enjoy confrontation, but. I know that if I can do it, you can do it. And I know that the instances that I have done it, like for example, one again that I've referenced in, in previous episodes is when a dj multiple times called out the bride and groom when referring to a couple that was very much a bride and a bride. And I had a conversation with him that. Well, I'm not sure he maybe learned from,'cause I haven't worked from him or worked with him since. I can confirm that it wasn't as scary as I thought. And so, you know, just remembering that. The world is full of good people and we, we want people in our wedding spaces that are willing to learn and grow. And so I'm just empowering you to do it even if it doesn't happen in the moment, like, you got this. But speaking of in the moment, this is so important. If you are a vendor. Working closely with a couple. And again, this is coming from the position of like a photographer potentially a planner two, like if you're meeting with them out in public. You know, for me example, like I'm doing engagement sessions with couples out in public all the time. And so I think that this is really important to think of. And, and of course too on like wedding days you're there live with a couple in person. But I think it is so important for us vendors who are spending a lot of time with couples to be having conversations with them. About what to do should things arise. I have been doing this for long enough that unfortunately I have seen people give weird stares in public or get up and leave when I take a couple to go take their photo. And the person clearly doesn't wanna see us taking pictures, like things like that that happen live in person. And especially just with everything that's going on in the world it's really important to have conversations with your couples about how to handle things if they happen in the moment. And this also comes from, again, like another real life experience. Something that, like this wedding in particular was what? Inspired me to start having conversations with couples ahead of time. Just in that, uh, yeah, a few years ago I was working with a couple, both of them use they, them pronouns and you know, that's, that's all I knew and that's all I was referring to them as. And then I go to photograph their wedding and everyone is saying. Any pronouns that are not, they them like, I mean, I shouldn't say any pronouns, but n nobody was using they them pronouns for this couple, for either of them. And I just remember being so frozen all day because I was like, Hmm, should I be correcting people? Like is the couple doing this on purpose? Like people in their life don't know. And. You know, that's just, I, I think about that all the time because that's when I was like, okay, I, I really need to start talking to couples more ahead of time to know, like, when do I step in? What things are they comfortable with? What things are they having to change on their wedding day to protect themselves? Things like that. And so. It's really, really important. I think for photographers, especially since we see the couple in person before their wedding and we do so much with them throughout the day or even on the wedding day or potentially going to offsite locations for their photos and things like that. So I just really encourage you to think about how you wanna include that in your workflow, whether. It's a, a conversation, whether it's something you put in their questionnaires that you have them fill out ahead of time. Asking'em things like, what can I do to make you feel safe? Or if you notice something that I don't notice, like, please let me know. Things like that I think are just really valuable. And so, yeah, I think. It is important to have this conversation also because again, every couple is so different and some couples are like, we so appreciate you, but we totally got this, and we're okay. Like, letting people know that, hey, like actually those aren't our pronouns. And sometimes they're like, actually, we would really appreciate your support on the wedding. Like if somebody misgenders us, like. Uh, totally correct them. We just don't wanna be like stepping on anybody's toes or sharing information that's not ours to share. So I think that conversation ahead of time is, is really, really valuable. So, I know this is kind of a lot of information, it's a little bit of longer episode but I hope that for couples and vendors alike, you kind of figure out what feels right for you in calling out vendors. Uh, I just wanna say couples, you are empowered to say something. If you feel safe in doing so, like we, we are trying to create a wedding future here where we don't have to be having these kinds of conversations and so, I just hope that you would know that you are empowered to do so. And if it's not you, like the next time you meet a wedding vendor, like share with them and we will share. And for vendors like. It, it is on us to create this culture that then creates a safe space for our couples. Like truly, so much of this is on us, and so I hope that we bear that weight responsibly and encourage others to do the same so that we can create. A better and safer wedding industry together. So, thank you so much for joining me here on Queer Beloved Today. If you have your own stories that, that you wanna share or any tips that you have as a vendor in, in calling out other vendors, please let me know. Feel free to email me hello@wildlyconnectedphotography.com or send me a dm. I I truly love chatting with all of you. So, until next time. Stay wild. Stay loved. Alright, bye guys.